PRIME MINISTER
Engagements
Q1. Mr. Haynes
To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 9 November.
The Prime Minister (Mrs. Margaret Thatcher)
This morning I presided at a meeting of the Cabinet and had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in the House, I shall be having further meetings later today.
[column 1157]Mr. Haynes
In the shambles of the privatisation of nuclear energy, who should take the blame? Should it be the advisers who advise or the Ministers who decide?
The Prime Minister
rose—[Interruption.]
Mr. Speaker
Order. This takes up a lot of time.
The Prime Minister
If there were a shambles, that question would arise. As there is not, it does not.
Q2. Mr. Gwilym Jones
To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 9 November.
The Prime Minister
I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Jones
Does my right hon. Friend agree that it is an intrinsic part of Conservative philosophy to conserve our environment and our heritage? Further, does my right hon. Friend accept that all those who are concerned with preserving the rain forests will applaud the practical lead that she has given towards that end?
The Prime Minister
I agree with my hon. Friend that the Government have given a lead in tackling the problems of climate change. In particular, we have given a lead in our aid programme for conserving the forests, especially in Brazil, where, through Chris Pattenmy right hon. Friend who is now the Secretary of State for the Environment, we signed the first such agreement between an industrial country and a country with tropical forests. We have also signed one with India. I was able to announce at the United Nations the earmarking of £100 million under our tropical forest action programme. That is good news, both for developing countries and for the developed world.
Mr. Kinnock
What is the Prime Minister's answer to the question put to her and her colleagues by Brighton ambulance man Brian Murray, holder of the British Empire Medal, who asked: “Why do they have such short, ungrateful memories?”
The Prime Minister
We have great gratitude to the ambulance men. As the right hon. Gentleman knows, through the Whitley council they were offered a 6.5 per cent. increase backdated to April and in London 9.3 per cent., backdated to April, both of which would amount to quite a considerable small lump sum if it were taken now. They had also reached an agreement on 24 October about how to run the emergency services. We very much regret that that agreement is not being honoured. It was fully agreed between management and people.
Mr. Kinnock
If the Prime Minister is so confident of the case, why does she not let Mr. Murray and his colleagues go to arbitration? Does she recognise that to lavish praise on ambulance people at the time of a disaster and then to stop them going to arbitration is gross hypocrisy?
The Prime Minister
No. This is negotiated through the Whitley council. It was negotiated through the Whitley council and was recommended for acceptance.
Mr. Leigh
When my right hon. Friend completed her interview with Mr. Brian Walden, did she receive any complaints from the programme staff about the fact that the Leader of the Opposition had wriggled out of giving [column 1158]his interview? When she was Leader of the Opposition, did she ever fear to have her intellectual competence questioned?
Mr. Speaker
Order. The hon. Gentleman knows that he must ask a question on which the Prime Minister has ministerial responsibility.
Q3. Mr. Bell
To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 9 November.
The Prime Minister
I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Bell
During the course of her busy day, would the Prime Minister take time to read yesterday's Evening Standard headline:
“Thatcher's Plan to Save The World” ?
Will she kindly tell the House, in the scheme of things, what ambassadorship she would offer the former Chancellor of the Exchequer, the right hon. Member for Blaby (Mr. Lawson), what post she would offer the deputy leader of the Tory party, the deputy Prime Minister, the right hon. and learned Member for Surrey, East (Sir G. Howe), and what are her plans for the universe?
The Prime Minister
Perhaps the hon. Gentleman would do me the courtesy of reading the speech.
Dame Elaine Kellett-Bowman
I thank my right hon. Friend for persuading our right hon. Friend the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food to listen to the pleas of Andrew Gorst, a 14-year-old pupil at Ripley St. Thomas in my constituency, who keeps 48 hens and has some very satisfied customers. He would have had to pay as much as someone with 10,000 hens but now he will pay at a very reduced rate. I should like to say “Thank you very much” to my right hon. Friend.
The Prime Minister
I am grateful to my hon. Friend. I am sure my right hon. Friend John Gummerthe Minister deserves all the compliments for listening to the case of a small farmer and taking the requisite action.
Mr. McGrady
Does the Prime Minister agree that her announcement in New York yesterday of £5.5 million for environmental research is a poor substitute for the £33 million that she withdrew from the natural environment research council in February this year? That affected 160 scientists, 41 of whom are involved in research into ozone and the glowing heat effect. Will she reinstate that budget?
The Prime Minister
The grant allocated to the natural environment research council by the advisory board for all research councils was put up, having regard to the importance of the work of the British Antarctic Survey, to the importance of the world experiment on the circulation of the oceans—we shall take part in that—and to the need to put more into satellite work on monitoring climate change.
Mr. Gale
Can my right hon. Friend think of any circumstances in which it might be proper to take industrial action against the sick, the disabled and the infirm? Can she think of any occasion on which such action has been condemned by the Leader of the Opposition?
The Prime Minister
It is always a matter of great regret and concern if strike action is taken against the sick and the infirm, particularly when there was an agreement on 24 [column 1159]October with regard to accident and emergency services which is not now being operated. We must also bear in mind that nine out of 10 miles done by the ambulance service are not for accidents and emergencies but to get people to hospital, whether as in-patients or out-patients. Most of those non-emergency people are managing excellently to get themselves to hospital. But that does not alter the main point of my hon. Friend's question—that action should not be taken against the sick.
Q4. Mr. McCartney
To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 9 November.
The Prime Minister
I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. McCartney
When the chairman of the Conservative party recently said that the former Chancellor, the right hon. Member for Blaby (Mr. Lawson), had resigned because of long-standing serious differences with the Prime Minister on economic policy, was he telling the truth?
The Prime Minister
I have nothing further to add to the statements that I made at the Dispatch Box last week.
Disabled People
Q5. Mr. Hannam
To ask the Prime Minister if she will make a statement on recently announced measures to assist the disabled.
The Prime Minister
My right hon. Friend Tony Newtonthe Secretary of State for Social Security has recently announced a number of measures to give extra help to some 500,000 disabled people and carers. These will add a further £100 million on top of the £8.3 billion a year being spent on benefits for long-term sick and disabled people in real terms. That is nearly double what was being spent in 1979.
Mr. Hannam
I thank my right hon. Friend for the recent improvements, especially the carers' allowance and the mobility allowance for deaf-blind people. Does she recall her 1979 commitment to introduce a system of cash benefits to meet the costs of disablement? Will she therefore take a personal interest in the current review of disability benefits to ensure that that promise is implemented to help the 6 million disabled people in Britain to live a life of dignity?
The Prime Minister
I hope that my hon. Friend will consider that we have honoured our pledge by increasing the amount spent on the disabled by 90 per cent. in real terms—that is, over and above inflation—since 1979. The number of people receiving help with their extra costs through mobility allowance has increased sixfold and through attendance allowance threefold over the past decade. That is a record of which the Government can be proud. I certainly assure my hon. Friend that we shall be seeking to do more to help many disabled people who at present do not receive mobility allowance or attendance allowance.
Mr. Ashley
Is the Prime Minister aware that although her figures are correct, the impression that she seeks to create is false? In the past 10 years the real value of the average male take-home pay has risen by 20 per cent. while [column 1160]the average real value of disablement benefit has risen by less than 1 per cent. That is why her boast about helping disabled people has a hollow ring.
The Prime Minister
I do not think that the many people who now receive disablement benefits but did not receive them before will find that that comes with a hollow ring. There are many people in receipt of disablement benefits who never received them before. Spending on the disabled has increased from £1.8 billion in 1978–79 to £8.3 billion in cash terms. That is an increase of £4 billion in real terms. Of that real increase, £3.5 billion is attributable to the increased number of beneficiaries—those who otherwise would not have received benefit—and £500 million to the increase in the average amounts paid.
Mr. Thurnham
Does my right hon. Friend agree that the best way to help the disabled is to target help to those who are most in need? Does she particularly welcome the new benefits of up to £65 per week for families with severely disabled babies?
The Prime Minister
Yes. I am grateful to my hon. Friend for mentioning the sum of £65 per week which is intended to help those people. I know my hon. Friend's personal record in this matter and the tremendous interest that he has taken in that aspect of disablement and we all honour him for the lead that he has given.
Q6. Mr. Nellist
To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 9 November.
The Prime Minister
I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Nellist
Is the Prime Minister aware that the hon. Member for Birmingham, Edgbaston (Dame J. Knight) this morning again put the Government's view that there is no compatibility between the dangers faced by firefighters and those faced by ambulance workers? Where does the Prime Minister think that ambulance workers were at King's Cross or the Brighton hotel, when she was particularly pleased to see them—waiting outside like glorified taxi drivers? When will she stop treating the women and men of the ambulance service as though they were members of her Cabinet? Why does she not pull out the Army, pay ambulance workers the money and stop risking lives?
The Prime Minister
First, the point about comparability with other emergency services was considered by the Clegg commission, which was set up by a Labour Government but whose recommendations were honoured by a Conservative Government because the Labour Government did not have the money—they just made promises. The Clegg commission did not uphold the demand for comparability between the services. The London ambulance service has been offered 9.3 per cent., backdated to April. The way to conduct the negotiations was through the Whitley council.
Q7. Mr. John Browne
To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 9 November.
The Prime Minister
I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Browne
Does my right hon. Friend accept that, whatever the route selected for the M3 around Winchester, [column 1161]it will inevitably cause serious environmental damage? As it was the Government of the day who diverted the route from the open country to the north of Winchester to the sensitive area to the south-east of Winchester, will she reassure the House that the Secretary of State for Transport will speedily be given sufficient funds to ensure that whatever route is finally selected it will be friendly to the special and historic environment around Winchester, which is a national asset?
[column 1162]The Prime Minister
I know of my hon. Friend's interest in this as he has been in correspondence and has been to see me about it. He knows that at the moment my right hon. Friends Chris Pattenthe Secretaries of State for the Environment and Cecil Parkinsonfor Transport are considering the reports of two independent inspectors, who held public inquiries into proposals for that road scheme. I cannot anticipate what their decisions will be, but I know that they fully understand the importance of environmental issues in cases such as this.