Mr. Bob HawkeMr. Hawke
Thank you, Margaret. Mrs. Thatcher has invited me to make the initial comments.
The first thing I say is to express to Mrs. Thatcher the appreciation of the Australian Government for the catalytic role which she has taken to put a new vigour into the Australian-United Kingdom relationship. I think it commenced with a visit to Australia last year and upon her return, she has ensured that the preparations for our visit have left nothing at all to be desired.
We are now participating in an historic meeting, by which I mean that never before has there been a delegation at the level of Prime Minister and so many Ministers reciprocated on your side and that, of course, will be followed up tomorrow by the meeting of more than three hundred high-level businessmen from my country and from the United Kingdom. So we are engaged at this time, as I say, in an historic enterprise to increase the level of economic and trading relation-ship between our two countries, but it would be a misapprehension if it were to be taken that it is merely bilateral matters with which are concerned, as important as they are. [end p1]
The United Kingdom and Australia share common perceptions on matters of international and regional importance and I think it is fair to say, Margaret, that tragically at this time, an issue which has taken up a fair bit of the discussion between yourself and myself and between our Ministers is what has been happening in China.
We are at one in expressing a sense of almost immeasurable tragedy as to what has happened there and what has been further compounded by the most recent evidence now of the execution of the Chinese who were involved in the train incident in Shanghai. We both deplore the decision of the Chinese authorities in taking that sort of action, which is out of all sort of relevance to what those people were involved in.
So we have talked about the issue of China; we have talked about regional issues; we have talked together about the challenges that confront us in a world now where Europe is moving closer together after 1992, where in our part of the world the region is developing at an enormously rapid rate offering for us and for British companies who come to operate out of Australia enormous opportunities. We are also living in a time where the changes within the Soviet Union, led by President Gorbachev, are also presenting their own opportunities and challenges and I think that Mrs. Thatcher and I share a fundamental perception about those developments, that is that we welcome them; we believe that it in appropriate that the West should, with caution, assist in those changes that are happening but as I say, that that should be done with an appropriate caution. [end p2]
So you can see, I think, that we have covered a very wide range of subjects and our discussions will continue now over what I think will be a useful working lunch, Margaret, so I conclude as I began, by expressing my appreciation to you and your Government for the thought and the preparation that has gone into this meeting which I believe can properly be described as “historic” .
Prime Minister
Just a few words because Mr. Hawke has said almost everything that there is to say about this.
We give him a very warm welcome to the United Kingdom. The invitation was extended when I was over there for the Bicentennial last year when I think we all realised that we were entering on a new era of contacts; that we must have much more consultation about global matters and much more consultation between Ministers, so that we may work the better on things like defence matters, on things like trading matters, on things which affect the whole world. Australia's position is very prominent. The great thing about talking to her and her Ministers is that our approach is the same.
It starts on human rights, the desire to extend those the world over and as we now have great problems to face in the Pacific and things happening which we never thought to see, it is very good that we and Australia should have the time to talk about those and others matters which Australia is very keen on such as the environment. [end p3]
I may say it is very easy to talk with Australia, with all her Ministers, because of the similarity of approach. This is not just a one-off meeting—it is the beginning of a course of meetings which we will pursue regularly.
There is a special one tomorrow between Trading Ministers where we have a conference at the Queen Elizabeth Conference Centre to enhance the trading contracts and to enhance investment both ways. We have long been high investors in Australia. Australia is also a very high investor in Britain, which we welcome.
It has been a very very successful start and I am sure that that atmosphere will continue through the rest of the visit. [end p4]
Question
Prime Minister, can I ask you what your reaction is to the first reported execution of people involved in the unrest in China?
Prime Minister
Utterly appalled! Just exactly as Bob Hawke pointed out. The punishment is totally out of proportion to the crime and we are calling on them not to persecute those who are merely trying to have better arrangements for democracy.
It just shows you the depth of what has happened in China—something which we hoped would never happen and which we still cannot quite believe has, to the extent that they are repressing anyone who merely wants to enlarge human relations.
Question
Did you make any progress on reassurances you might offer the Hong Kong people? [end p5]
Prime Minister
We obviously talked about the Hong Kong people because we both feel the same way and understand how they must be thinking. We cannot go any further than that at the moment.
We also have another difficulty in Hong Kong which we are working together on—the Vietnamese boat people—and Australia is being very helpful about that.
Australia has also had a considerable number of people from Hong Kong—particularly those involved in industry—taking up residence in Australia, which has been a great comfort to the Hong Kong people and I think also a great benefit to Australia.
Question
Mr. Hawke, what about Hong Kong? Can you give them any reassurances, the people of Hong Kong? What do you think should be done about their desire to have the right to come out of the country if things get worse?
Mr. Hawke
As to the request by those people to exercise what they say perceive as their right to come here, that is a matter for decision and judgement by Mrs. Thatcher and her Government.
All that we are concerned to say are these things first: that we express our understanding of the pressures and the problems that confront the United Kingdom in a situation where they had properly thought that through detailed unremitting negotiation with [end p6] the Chinese authorities, the position had been reached in which you could have confidence for the future of the people of Hong Kong.
Now that basis of confidence has gone after 4 June and what has transpired since and I said to Margaret that we will do whatever we can in the approach together that we will adopt towards China to try and create the basic improvement that is necessary—that is to try and create a situation where by the time you get up towards 1997 there can be much sounder grounds for saying to the people of Hong Kong: “Have confidence in the future!” That is what, constructively, must be the basic approach.
In the meantime, we have indicated that in this financial year, which is just concluding, we have doubled our intake of people from Hong Kong. We will look sympathetically at any approach on this matter and in terms of that other aspect of the question that Margaret has referred to—the Vietnamese refugees—our assessment is identical. There should not be any doubt about this, because there in amongst our friends a reluctance to understand the realities. The realities are these:
That the people who are flooding into Hong Kong now from Vietnam are not political refugees. They are economic refugees, and, as that is the case, then a different approach is required and we are at one on that and I believe that as a result of the approach that we are adopting in consultation with others, including what has happened in Geneva recently, we can have a more appropriate response to what is an unacceptable influx of these people into Hong Kong. [end p7]
Prime Minister
One moment! I think some of you might have to get back to transmit and I did see Mr. Brunson give an indication that he wanted a question. If it is a short one, we can get two in!
Michael Brunson
I just wanted to ask, Prime Minister, whether you have both thought about how you ought to be reacting to China now, given that the United States are taking some measures.
Prime Minister
We have in fact spent, I think, about an hour talking about that subject alone because it is so important and, of course, we keep very closely in touch with the United States. Last question!
Mr. Hawke
May I just add to that? It is not as though it is just the United States that has taken decisions. The Government of Mrs. Thatcher has already taken decisions in the area of the supply of arms and so on—they have taken decisions. So have we. It is not a question of the United States being in front—if anything, they are catching up with us!
Question (Not completely Audible)
… . Antarctica and what is your attitude now in light of the agreement between the French Government and the Australian Government to oppose mining there? [end p8]
Prime Minister
We both have the same objective in Antarctica. It is a very important environmental area. The methods are different.
France did, of course, build a very considerable airstrip there comparatively recently, which was not necessarily the best thing to do.
Mr. Brunson
One more on the European elections!
Prime Minister
That is very unfair! Go on, quickly!
Michael Brunson
Can I ask you now to take this opportunity about why you did so badly in the European elections?
Prime Minister
Because insufficient of our supporters came out.
The time when we did best in the European elections was in 1979 when a far bigger proportion of supporters came out. That is exactly what I said to you the day before it happened. It is an organisational election. It depends upon which side can get most of their supporters out. This was an absolutely correct judgement. [end p9]
Michael Brunson
Did you get it wrong over Europe?
Prime Minister
The message we had was that a bigger proportion of our people were intending to come out. It did not turn out to be the truth on a very hot, nice warm day.
Michael Brunson
Did you yourself get it wrong over Europe, do you think?
Prime Minister
No, not at all!
Thank you, Michael!
Mr. Hawke
Perhaps you ought to try the Australian system, Margaret. We make them vote—it is compulsory!