Prime Minister
Ladies and Gentlemen:
The effort this morning, and this small press conference, is designed to make Britain a tidier and therefore very much nicer place in which to live.
We have seen this morning a beautiful park—lovely trees, lake, plants—disfigured by litter. The litter is not the Government's fault. The litter is the fault of the people who knowingly or thoughtlessly throw it down and pollute the environment in which they live. There is a law against it—there are about 1500 prosecutions a year—but that is but a small part of the problem.
When I went to the Liverpool International Flower Festival, which was also very beautiful, one of the first things I noticed was that there was practically no litter. There they had a number of people in uniform picking it up, collecting it, and very soon we noticed that no-one threw any down because somehow the environment had an effect on everyone and you became conspicuous if you did something awful like throwing litter down. Now that worked, and here in Westminster I am very grateful to Shirley Porter and the Westminster City Council for their tremendous initiative, for the number of bins they have so people have some place to throw their litter, and for the Bill which they piloted through Parliament—their private Bill. [end p1]
What we are trying to do now is to get Britain completely tidy, because if we do I think it will be rather like the Liverpool International Flower Festival—people will not then throw their litter down.
It may be that we shall have to change the law; that we shall have to put certain responsibilities on both householders and shopkeepers, but before we do that and before we contemplate doing it, we want to have a go to see what we can do by alerting people it is their environment; by alerting schools—and there are quite a lot of them do a great deal of work—to get Britain tidy; and also to alerting motorists not to throw things out of car windows on to central reservations, on to banks. When we bring in Heads of State or Heads of Government from an airport into London for a conference and whether it is from another main airport or from Heathrow or Gatwick, and one looks at the litter on the side of the road, it is awful.
That is why we are here and great things are going on. We want to do as much as we can as a matter of civic and national pride. If that is not working enough, then we shall have to consider changing the law to put duties and responsibilities upon people to keep their shop fronts or house fronts tidy or put duties about the road reservations—but let us have a go the other way first!
We have got the Nicholas RidleyEnvironment Minister and I, who are absolutely at one on this, and Professor Ashworth. [end p2]
Mr. Ridley
We have supported what is now called “Tidy Britain Group” for many years. It used to be called “Keep Britain Tidy Group” , but I think they have come to the same conclusion as the Prime Minister, that you have got to get Britain tidy before you can keep it tidy.
Hitherto, the Group has concentrated mainly on educational work, working with schools and children to be litter-conscious. It also, with business sponsorship, organised competitions for villages, districts, voluntary groups, to encourage civic pride.
A few months ago, I asked Professor Ashworth, the Director General, who is here, to think about what more we could do within a reasonable time so that we could actually see an improvement. I was, as it turned out, pushing at an open door, because he had been doing his thinking in parallel.
First, I just want to make one point: that the Tidy Britain Group and UK 2000 are duplicating this work. Tidy Britain Group is dedicated to cleaning up Britain from litter and graffiti almost entirely, but UK 2000—of which Tidy Britain Group is a member—covers a wide spectrum of environmental improvements: things like greening the cities, conserving the industrial heritage, restoring neglected wildlife habitats and things like that, so the projects undertaken by UK 2000 may have an anti-litter content to which Tidy Britain Group does contribute, but it is far too narrow to think of UK 2000 as being concerned only with cleaning up. Tidy Britain Group is the expert in this field and we are asking them to launch this new initiative. [end p3]
As the Prime Minister said, litter is everyone's problem in which everyone must contribute to a solution. It is like good manners, in my opinion. If we are all to be treated civilly, we must treat everyone civilly ourselves. What we need to do is create a new climate in which all sectors of the community contribute, so that being a litter lout will mean being unacceptable company even to one's own friends. For instance, litter attracts litter and clean places tend to remain clean. People respect what is respectable. The desire for clean and tidy public places exists. What people want to know is how the majority who want this country to be clean can ensure that their wish prevails and what they need to do to make sure that it does. Thus, I want to see pressure coming from below, from street level, from village level, from individuals, and to see that pressure converted into action. If we could do this, it would make more laws and more penalties unnecessary, so do let us try.
We have a lot of laws. The problem is how to enforce them. To bring in more national laws, with all the problems of enforcing them, should be a last resort. In this respect, we shall watch very closely to see how Westminster City Council's new bye-law performs, but we want to get a responsible attitude towards disposing of litter to be a state of mind with communities insisting on high standards of cleanliness in public places.
If those measures do not work, then as the Prime Minister says, we will have to go to looking at the law again. [end p4]
I discussed all this with Professor Ashworth and he was delighted to find how close together our ideas were.
With our support, the Group is embarking on some pilot schemes in order to be ready for a “Clean Nineties Drive” and I think that is the essence of what we are aiming at—a “Clean Nineties Drive” .
I will leave it to the Professor to set out his programme in full detail. It is very ambitious and, if it is going to be successful, it will be necessary for all sections of the community to play a positive part.
The initial stage will be for the Group to set up a series of projects on a countrywide basis to establish what can be done and how it can be done. Different approaches towards combatting litter will be tried in different types of location; different types of places will be selected—public areas, private property, urban areas, rural areas, motorways, stations, motorway service areas—an experiment in each type of place.
There will be “before” and “after” studies to assess the effectiveness of each approach. In short, this will be a period of experiment during which the Group will test its ideas and will review these pilot schemes after a year to assess the results. Successful methods will then be developed by the Group for its subsequent national campaign. [end p5]
We will, on top of the normal grant towards the Group's ongoing activities, contribute towards the costs of the projects, particularly to finance the managerial and coordinating role of the Group, but—and this is also part of the experiment—the projects will call for practical and financial support from industry, commerce, local authorities and voluntary bodies. Tidy Britain Group has long attracted such support hitherto, but more will be needed now and I am delighted that representatives of the commercial and industrial sponsors who have worked with the Group in the past are here today. This emphasises their commitment and I hope that many more business interests, both national and local, will come forward to demonstrate their recognition of the social and environment obligations which they have.
Tidy Britain Group is active throughout the whole of Britain and has long been supported by my colleagues from Scotland and Wales, who are represented here today. I know that other colleagues will do all they can to cooperate with the Tidy Britain Group, not only in respect of projects, but also in assisting the Group in the development of its ongoing educational and promotional activities.
This new initiative will be the first step on the long road to clean up Britain. It will not be easy to change the habits of the untidy element in our nation. The task is not one which can be achieved quickly or easily, but the Tidy Britain Group has my support and encouragement in attempting the task, and I wish them every success. [end p6]
Professor Ashworth
Naturally, I am delighted that the Prime Minister and the Secretary of State have accepted the strategy that we have proposed to them for achieving a clean and beautiful Britain in the Nineties.
The biggest obstacles we face, I believe, are the twin beliefs that so many people have first of all that litter is someone else's problem and, secondly, that it is actually a simple problem, easily solved.
On the first, we have to convince people that for each of us it is up to me—and it really is a matter for each of us to take to heart.
On the second, just managing the amount of waste that we actually produce is a daunting enough problem. We have seen something of that this morning in St. James's Park and if you just stop and think we were told this morning 15,000 sacks of litter are taken from the London Underground each week, that is the kind of size of problem that we are looking at.
But there is really a staggering national hypocrisy which is something I think we are going to have to go at, which simply says: “I think the litter is a disgrace and yet we see no connection between that and our own personal behaviour and personal activity!”
I believe that littering is often unconscious, or at least careless. I am not convinced that it is malicious, except in a few cases, but the sight of people sitting in a traffic jam—my most [end p7] recent experience was on the N25 where a lot of us sit a lot of the time I am sure—and using it as an opportunity to empty the car of all its rubbish, and it is so infuriating. You wonder whether you dare risk getting out of the car to the one in front because are you actually going to be there long enough? Usually you are, but it is a question of getting out and talking to them and then risking all kinds of abuse if you do.
That gives an indication of the scale of the problem, taking into account that which is a by-product of domestic and commercial refuse, builders waste and materials, then the more obvious items of personal litter—thousands of tonnes of litter a day are picked up from British towns and countryside. As the Prime Minister has said, something which is a problem for all of us.
The strategy that we propose by the Group is that this national malaise anticipates a systematic approach in five main types of environment.
They are, as the Secretary of State has said, within the areas of transport. We shall be looking at the litter problem around motorway service stations, beside the main trunk roads, major rail termini and its associated track sides, and the Group will hope to identify solutions for managing waste at these difficult locations.
We shall look at commercial areas too. The Group will investigate as many of Britain's high streets as we can, why they are scruffy, and bring together all those involved with the creation and management of litter at a major high street site. [end p8]
The project will look at the promotion of litter bins, whether or not they need to more frequent and more frequently emptied; the general condition of street furniture and the pavings, because very often part of the problem is that the litter gets trapped in improperly—or poorly-maintained paving surfaces and in order to reach general conclusions of relevance in other similar locations.
As the Secretary of State has said, it is experimental. We will do things, find out what we can. If we knew all the answers, we would not be needing to do this project in this way.
The Group will review the cleaning of an industrial estate to promote the Group's philosophy, which we have tried to project to industry, about profiting from your image.
We shall look at the problems facing local authorities. The Group has long experience of working with local authorities through its public information and education programme which is called “The Community Environment Programme” . The Group will conduct a detailed review of that programme, because it is working in some places and not in others. We need to know why, and examine the enforcement of the Litter Act and the development of county litter abatement plans.
I am encouraged by the Prime Minister's recognition that there may be a need to look at the legislation problems.
We shall look at the problems facing tourism. Tourists so often claim that Britain is a dirty nation. This morning, we have heard that they are part of the problem. I am sure they are, but they are only part of the problem. [end p9]
The Group will examine and propose solutions for the litter found at major tourist areas, and that will include the development of tourist hosts, environmental wardens, not only responsible for the maintenance of specific areas, but also for other functions such as the production of information and assistance to visitors.
Enormous amounts of litter are created at special events like football matches. If you go to a major league football match, if you talk to the management there, they spend the subsequent week clearing up after a Saturday match—a whole week to clear up one of our major football grounds we were learning just last week. The Group will instigate a pilot project with the organisers of such events—football matches, tennis tournaments, etc.—and seek to learn from that the problem that we have with the amounts of litter that are created on such occasions.
I am encouraged, of course, from the endorsement of the strategy's proposals for a number of reasons:
first of all, that it is experimental.
secondly, that action and education must go hand-in-hand; and
thirdly, that we need a high profile of publicity, and I am so grateful, Prime Minister, for your help this morning in actually raising this to the point where we can see that it is a matter of national concern. [end p10]
The programme is experimental, because we recognise we do not have all the answers. From the pilot projects, we shall determine the best components for a nationwide campaign a year later, and a consolidation programme into the decade that is to follow. We have to get it clean and then we have to keep it clean.
Even by the end of the first year, though, we should be able to see in certain places a significant improvement and be able to point to those. When we had our discussions, I said to the Secretary of State: “We cannot say we can clean up Britain in a year, but we ought to be able to point to places of significant improvement at the end of twelve months!”
Education alone has proved ineffective; action alone produces surges of cleanliness but no lasting impact. The programme that we have devised acknowledges that we must both get our environment clean by a national effort over a 2–3-year period and then keep it clean by the development of an educated and civilised attitude which discourages littering in the first place.
A clean environment will be achieved when the individual in every one of us responds to the challenge to care about what we do with our waste, and that is the bottom-up approach that we will develop through a high national consciousness of the litter problem. It has to be seen as something in which I as John Citizen am involved. [end p11]
The Tidy Britain Group is greatly encouraged by the Government's evident support for our experimental, action-based, highly-visible programme, but also by the response that we have already gained from the corporate sector of British life. I must say that and I am grateful that the Secretary of State already has mentioned it. Local authorities, industry and commerce have already agreed to work with us on our pilot projects and there is encouraging sponsorship of publicity materials, competitions and the production of videos and exhibitions.
Many companies, many organisations—some of whom are represented here today—have been tremendously helpful already, there is a note about them in our press hand-out and I will not go through the list at this stage, but we still need all the help that we can get and I hope the press and media will be ready to help our cause so that success is both demanded and then highlighted and our campaign becomes a regular topic of conversation, so that people begin to talk about it.
It is no small task to change the ingrained habits and attitudes of a nation, but it can be done and the Tidy Britain Group will certainly give it their best shot. Our success can only benefit all of us, of course, socially, aesthetically and economically, and we are very grateful indeed for the support that we have evidently before us this morning. [end p12]
Prime Minister
Would you like to address your questions either to Nick Ridley or Professor Ashworth, if in dire circumstances to me!
Question
How long are you prepared to wait for the public's response before deciding on legislation?
Prime Minister
There is no question of legislation next year. The legislative programme for the next Parliamentary Session is already full, but also, if this is not going to work it would take just a little bit of time to decide the policy, because as Nicholas RidleyNick said, it is not only the law—it is the enforcement of it. But I do not want anyway to say: “Ah well, we cannot do it because … .!” for the simple reason that on the Continent they have legislation and they are able to enforce it and it does work, but I think they are able to enforce it for the simple reason that we all said earlier: that having this tremendous effort and getting the place tidy means people are much more likely to keep it tidy. But it would not be the next Parliamentary Session—we have so much already in the pipeline for that. That still leaves years three, four and five of this Parliament. [end p13]
Question
Could the Tidy Britain Group say which their five towns are and which capital sites?
Prof. Ashworth
The five areas of consideration as opposed to five towns: we shall be actually considering a number. There are something like sixteen or seventeen projects all together, but we shall be addressing them under the headings that I mentioned of tourism, public transport and local authorities and so on.
Negotiations with the local authorities are still in progress—we shall announce those in due course—as to where the pilot projects are to be.
In the capital, we are discussing with Lady Porter and her officials the possibilities of looking at Regent Street; we are also looking at Parliament Square, for obvious reasons, but those are still under negotiation.
Prime Minister
There are one or two bad bits south of the river too. [end p14]
Mr. Ridley
There are possibly going to be one or two main-line stations, one or two motorway service areas, one or two central reservations on motorways coming into London, perhaps a village or two, a high street in a country town and several streets in the middle of cities. There is going to be a mixture of specific locations like that where actually the problem is identified to be the worst.
Prime Minister
It goes right across the country?
Mr. Ridley
Everywhere, yes. About sixteen projects.
Question
Prime Minister, in the legislative changes you might contemplate would you think of a levy on take-away food to discourage people from discarding the wrappings too casually?
Prime Minister
At the moment we are not contemplating it. Some of the take-away food (firms) already make some of their own arrangements to clear up both outside and some of them go round and if there are any packages with their trade mark on they clear those up. [end p15]
We are going to have a really good go with this effort and then we will have to consider whether we need legislation and what sort but I really do not think we can formulate our conclusions before we have had a look to see what we can do.
Question
Could I ask one other thing? One problem for people trying to dispose of litter is finding places where they can put it sometimes because the litter bins do not get emptied. Have you had representations from local authorities saying they cannot afford to empty them?
Prime Minister
No. I do not know how you did it in your young day, but if you went out for a picnic in a wood or a field or on the beach, you took a big bag and you put in all your own litter and waste and you carried it home and you put it in your own dustbin, but you did not just leave it, and I was very interested once when I saw the bins being removed from some lay-bys on a motorway and I said: “Whatever are you doing?” I was none too pleased about it and they said: “We have found that if we have these great big bins they are filled to overflowing and if there is a bin and it is full people leave it round the side and the wind blows, it goes all over. If we take the bins away and put up notices ‘Please take away your own litter with you!’ then it is cleaner!” As a matter of fact, this was in Scotland. [end p16]
You also have to consider that and it may be that some of the experiments will show which is better—to have bins that unless they are emptied say three times a day may in fact mean that people think they have a golden right to leave things all round the base, or whether it is better to say: “Look! Take your own bag with you and clear up your own litter!” We do not know yet.
Question
Prime Minister, you mentioned this in Parliament fairly recently at Question Time.
Prime Minister
Yes, Ted Garrad (phon) asked a very useful question and he and I are absolutely at one and sometimes when I come back from other countries and find them tidy and I look at ours, then I do feel a bit ashamed.
Question
I wanted to ask was there one specific incident that has sort of prompted your renewed interest in this?
Prime Minister
No, not one specific incident but as I say, sometimes we have taken now, for speed as well as anything else, to having people in from London Airport by helicopter if we are on a tight schedule— [end p17] whether Head of State or Head of Government—and sometimes the weather is such that you cannot do that and then you notice on a Monday morning if you bring them in, the streets through which you bring them are really such—or some of the motorways—that you really are quite ashamed of it.
Any one particular thing? No, I never really let it go.
I tell you another thing which I noticed when we were on holiday in Cornwall.
The National Trust have a very good scheme. They have young people and they can come and stay at a National Trust house for a very modest sum and then, for about four hours a day, they go around and they clean up the beaches and they really do a fantastic job, so these young people are very environment-conscious and it is just getting more and more people to be the same. But we really cannot carry on with some of the streets as they are.
Question
Is the Government looking to actually encourage waste recycling, getting people perhaps to keep some of their rubbish and hand them over for recycling in some areas?
Prime Minister
You have got your bottle banks and the like. Who is going to do them? Nick! [end p18]
Mr. Ridley
Well, you see, this is local authority territory, but a lot of waste recycling can actually be profitable and I do try and encourage local authorities to separate out the waste and sell the material which has value, make composts, and matters of that sort.
The whole question of the supervision of waste disposal, which is different to waste collection, is really a very different aspect of it and is one where we will soon be legislating. I do not know when we will find time, but we have a need to give the local authorities the proper regulating powers which they rather lack at the moment and to encourage better procedures for disposal of waste, but that is a separate question to the question whether you can make some profit out of recycling and resale, and there is a very large amount of technology which enables local authorities, if they will, to actually do it profitably.
Prof. Ashworth
If I could just add to that, I think it is inevitable that at the end of some of our projects we shall have to be giving consideration to what we do with the waste that is collected properly. Our definition of litter is: “waste materials in the wrong place” . Once you have got them in the right place, what we then do with them is a question that we will not be able to duck, so we shall have to look at it as part of our project programme I think. [end p19]
Prime Minister
There are some bio-degradable plastics about but they take a long time to bio-degrade. That is the trouble, isn't it?
Thank you for coming and you will do your bit! Thank you!