Speeches, etc.

Margaret Thatcher

TV Interview for TV-AM/Channel Four (Brussels European Council)

Document type: Speeches, interviews, etc.
Venue: Charlemagne Building, Brussels
Source: Thatcher Archive: COI transcript
Journalist: Adam Boulton, TV-AM
Editorial comments: Late evening, after the press conference which began at 2144. MT took off for London at 2330.
Importance ranking: Major
Word count: 1182
Themes: Agriculture, European Union (general), European Union Budget, Law & order, Community charge (“poll tax”), Social security & welfare

Adam Boulton, TV-AM

Prime Minister, this Summit has ended with all the other eleven countries seemingly raised against Britain on the issue of increased spending. Why is that? What has got wrong?

Prime Minister

Because I am not prepared to commit Britain to increased spending until I am certain the money is going to be spent wisely and well; for that you need to look at detail. They were not prepared to look at the detail.

Adam Boulton, TV-AM

The Common Market is very complicated. I wonder if you could give us some examples of the profligate spending which you think is going on now?

Prime Minister

Well, one profligate spending is the way in which we have got two years surplus of butter in warehouses—refrigerated warehouses—and it is costing a great deal to keep, we have got a great big surplus of beef, the wheat surplus is building up. Do you know, for example, also in the Community people like Italy and Greece grow tobacco; it is not very good tobacco, no-one will buy it so that too [end p1] goes into store, there are endless examples of these things and we cannot go on like this.

Adam Boulton, TV-AM

Those are the sort of remarks that critics of the Common Market in Britain have been making for at least seventeen years [sic] since we joined. No Prime Minister ever seems to be satisfied with the financial deal in what we pay and what we get out. Could one be forgiven for asking “Why bother with it? It is seventeen years, what have we got out of it?”

Prime Minister

A very great deal. It is the largest single trading block in the world and therefore it has a very great influence both on Third World countries and in all our trading relations with the rest of the world and also, don't forget, it is Europe that has been the world's battleground, Europe because it did not get together in the inter-war years and that is one reason why we are getting together now and continue to get together and try to grow more closely together because it helps the whole peace process.

Adam Boulton, TV-AM

You have not disguised that there has been a degree of anger. There seems to be quite a lot of them and us feeling between you and some of the other leaders. There does seem to be an impression that the Common Market is a society run by the Germans and French for their own benefit and some of their allies in the sunnier states? [end p2]

Prime Minister

It is quite true that in the middle of the proceedings today they went off together and came up with something that was quite fresh to us and took a great deal of time to consider. Certainly they do that. But no, it is much much more than that. This time it has taken some time to solve these problems. We have not been in a position in Britain to have quite so much influence over the future budget because as you know, we had to get justice on our contributions—that means we have to get a rebate …

Adam Boulton, TV-AM

Which we have not got.

Prime Minister

Well, we have got it. We got it at Fontainebleau. We are sure we have got that and they cannot change it without our consent so that gives us now influence of a kind we have not had before. We got that when we agreed to spend more but the more we agreed to spend then, they have now run out; they have used it all far ahead of time and they are coming to ask us for more and I am saying “No, not unless I am certain it is going to be better used than the last lot was” .

Adam Boulton, TV-AM

Are you confident that you will agree those new changes in spending on agriculture and contributions by the end of the year in Denmark or will it go on to Germany as the Germans are suggesting at this time next year? [end p3]

Prime Minister

I would like us to agree it in Copenhagen. That depends upon how much detailed work the Commission has managed to do between now and then. They have got instructions to do it. I would like to have it agreed but my fear is that they will want more than we are prepared to let them have, because any problem they have they tend to solve it by agreement among themselves that each can have what they have and then it is countries like Germany, ourselves, and now France which pays, though Germany pays most, we pay the second amount and France is third.

Adam Boulton, TV-AM

But it does look as if your third term is going to be another one of fighting in Europe against the Europeans?

Prime Minister

Look my third term will be constantly always battling for Britain's interests and I shall go on battling for Britain's interests and I will not commit the British taxpayer just on generalities; I will look at the figures, I will look at the details and I shall continue in that way.

Adam Boulton, TV-AM

How about the battle at home? Are you worried by Mr Heseltine lining himself up against you over the poll tax?

Prime Minister

No, we in fact put the Community charge into the manifesto, [end p4] Michael Heseltinehe along with everyone else fought on it. The alternative is a revaluation of the rating system after seventeen years. I have been through two revaluations in my life as a Member of Parliament, after five years. Scotland went through one after five years and the mayhem was terrible.

Adam Boulton, TV-AM

So he is not a formidable foe?

Prime Minister

So I do not think there is much doubt about the right way to go in the future. It is either a seventeen year revaluation which will be terrible, or capital values which I would not dream of going to because it would hit the pensioner. This was in our manifesto. I think it is a case of explaining much more. It is a community charge. You can get up to 80%;—eight nought—rebate according to how much you can afford and if you are on supplementary benefit you will get an extra amount in order to pay the remaining 20%;.

Adam Boulton, TV-AM

Finally, if I could ask you about a subject which has been causing concern at home while we have been here in Europe, it is the subject of child abuse; something strange seems to have gone on in Cleveland and the National Society of Prevention of Cruelty to Children have also come up with alarming statistics today. There is something sick in our society on this subject. Would you agree? [end p5]

Prime Minister

As we all know from past cases, there are some children who are at risk and the difficulty is how to make certain to identify those and get them to safety without at the same time hindering too much the rights of parents and the first thing to do in the cases in Cleveland now is to find out the facts and as you know that is just precisely what is going on?

Adam Boulton, TV-AM

Do you think there is a need for changes in the law?

Prime Minister

I think we have to look quite seriously at the law which was passed—I think it was—in 1969.