Speeches, etc.

Margaret Thatcher

Press Conference at Vancouver Expo 86

Document type: Speeches, interviews, etc.
Venue: Media Centre, Robson Square, Vancouver
Source: Thatcher Archive: COI transcript
Editorial comments: 1610-1642. Many of the questions were inaudible on tape and could not be transcribed. A copy can be found on PREM19/1681.
Importance ranking: Major
Word count: 2718
Themes: Commonwealth (general), Commonwealth (Rhodesia-Zimbabwe), Commonwealth (South Africa), Defence (general), Privatized & state industries, Environment, Trade, Foreign policy (Africa), Foreign policy (Americas excluding USA), Foreign policy (development, aid, etc), Law & order, Sport, Transport

Prime Minister

As you know, I am over here for the EXPO '86 and because of the Vancouver Centenary, and I came over on the Concorde. It is the first time that I have flown in Concorde. It is the first time the Concorde has been to Vancouver and you saw it flying past this morning just before we opened the British Day.

I am very impressed with everything I have seen at EXPO '86. I think it was a very bold idea and very boldly carried out, and I believe it has exceeded all expectations.

First, I visited, as you know, the British Pavilion. I am immensely pleased with it. As well as a traditional part, it whole [end p1] emphasis is on the future and on Britain's part in the future and all the technology to which Britain can contribute in the future. I thought they had done the displays excellently and there was a very great deal for people to say: ‘Well, we must in fact deal with Britain in the future.’

The Canadian Pavilion, of course, is absolutely outstanding, not only both in what it shows but in its display and it is very exciting.

We went, as you know, to the shopping centre where there is a promotion for British goods.

I think I have been absolutely overwhelmed wherever we have been by the tremendous reception we have had, both at the opening of British Day this morning, which I understand was the best-attended National Day that there has been; very proud of our band and of our marvellous school. They played a terrific modern thing, so we had both the traditional and the modern, and everywhere we have been I think the reception that people have given us has just been terrific and shows very much that not only the Canadian-British spirit is still there very deeply, but also there is something very special about it in British Columbia and particularly in Vancouver.

Now, that I think is all I have to say to open with. May I emphasise that I am here because of Vancouver and because of Britain and because of EXPO, and I do not know whether you will believe me or not but I have not actually thought or discussed other wider inter-national matters which may or may not be in your minds. [end p2]

Question

(Inaudible, but regarding boycott of a number of countries of the Commonwealth Games)

Prime Minister

I am very sorry that in Vancouver, at EXPO, when I am trying to sell Britain, that that is the first question I have had. As it is—and in a free country I am not able to fashion the questions or formulate them—it does not matter who pulls out of the Commonwealth Games, it will not help to end apartheid in South Africa.

I am anxious to try to help bring that about by negotiation. I will be very sorry if other people reject negotiation as the way forward.

Yes, I am sad if other people boycott the Games. I think the Commonwealth is really an outward and visible sign of the strength of the Commonwealth and Commonwealth cooperation, but the main thing is that no amount of boycott will help to end apartheid in South Africa, and that is our objective.

Question

(Inaudible)

Prime Minister

I expect we shall discuss this matter with Mr. Mulroney. You really would not expect me to say how I think the conversation will go before we have even had it. If you do expect it, I am afraid I [end p3] will have to disappoint you.

Question

(Inaudible)

Prime Minister

I would not accept your premise that I am constantly butting world opinion on this matter. I can only ask you, as I have done in interviews I have done with Canadian television and British newspapers, to recall the objective.

The objective is to bring to an end apartheid in South Africa. The method is to do so by negotiation. There may be some who would prefer a method of force or violence. That is not my way. That is not Britain's way.

The Commonwealth suggested that there should be a suspension of violence in return for dialogue, so the Commonwealth too at Nassau said: ‘Look. We believe dialogue is the way and we believe in return for dialogue you should have suspension of violence.’

I think it would be best if we keep both the objective in mind and the method.

I would not accept that general economic sanctions would in any way bring about political change in South Africa, and if you accept that, then immediately you must reject general economic sanctions, because if it does not bring about the change and will not—and historically never has brought about internal change—what is the point of considering general economic sanctions? [end p4]

Question

(Inaudible)

Prime Minister

You do not need a mediator between Commonwealth leaders. We are all Commonwealth leaders and we discuss together. There is no need to have a mediator between us. We get together and we discuss, as we did at Nassau, so no need to have a mediator.

I have worked with Kenneth Kaunda for a long time. Lusaka was my first Commonwealth Conference as Prime Minister. Kenneth was in the chair. He chaired it quite brilliantly. It was a very important conference.

When I arrived at Lusaka they thought: What is this new British Prime Minister coming? She will be ‘anti’ everything that they stand for and yet, by the end of the conference, they charged myself and Peter Carrington with the duty of bringing Rhodesia, as she then was under illegal UDI, to legal independence. We discharged that duty fully. Mr. Mugabe is now a member of the Commonwealth. Do not forget that.

I have been through some of this before.

Question

(Inaudible)

Prime Minister

No, I say it to South Africa. You asked me about Kenneth Kaunda and I was reminding you that Kenneth Kaunda was Chairman of the Conference which in fact by the end of it charged myself and [end p5] Peter Carrington with the duty of doing the negotiations which led to bringing Rhodesia, now Zimbabwe, to full independence, so I have worked with Kenneth Kaunda and have every respect and affection for him, and admiration for the way in which he works. We may disagree sometimes, but hitherto we have been able to work together and we are both devoted members of the Commonwealth. And the Commonwealth should be strong enough to endure many smaller differences between its members. It has, after all, endured for a very long time.

Question

(Inaudible)

Prime Minister

I am sorry. I cannot quite hear.

I am not going to say what would happen at the Heads of seven Governments meeting of the Commonwealth before it even takes place. I am not going to say I think may happen or what we will consider. I have nothing further to add on South Africa to that which I have already said to Canadian television, Canadian press and in the interviews I have given.

I have nothing further to add since I have been here. I have, in fact, come to Vancouver for EXPO.

Question

(Inaudible) [end p6]

Prime Minister

I do not believe that the Commonwealth could be so easily wrecked. I believe the Commonwealth is very much stronger than you think.

After all, there are many many countries in the Commonwealth which have endured very difficult circumstances. Some do not have democratic governments—indeed, quite a number—quite a number have states of emergency and some have had censorship. Some have been through very difficult times and there has been violence in some of them. No-one has suggested that those members of the Commonwealth be expelled for that reason. They have endured many difficult occasions and we shall endure many more.

Question

(Inaudible)

Prime Minister

As you said, I said in the course of the interviews to which I have referred, that there are certain strategic materials which are found only in South Africa and in the Soviet Union. For example, the Soviet Union is the main source of platinum other than South Africa. Platinum is frequently used as a catalyst and, of course, used for those who wish to continue to make improvements in the environment, especially on the exhausts of cars. Also platinum and chemical chrome and some vanadium and sometimes a good supply of manganese. Some of the materials in South Africa. The only alternative source of them is the Soviet Union. Some of those materials are [end p7] extremely important for our defence industries.

I think people should think twice before in fact they make statements about sanctions on South Africa which might jeopardise our capacity to have access to those fundamental raw materials.

Question

(Inaudible)

Prime Minister

I think that when you come to a World Fair of this kind, you have a much more vivid idea of what a country can do, a country and its people, and I do think it will have a lasting influence.

First, the conception of the World Fair, the way in which it has been carried out, some of the Canadian products, and the sheer design work attached to this Exhibition, I think can only have impressed everyone and the way in which national leaders have been received and the whole thing has been carried out has been a great plus for Canada. That, I think, will have a lasting effect.

I also think that a lot of tourists this year have come to Vancouver and I think that they might well return because they are so impressed with it as a city and the facilities that it has to offer.

Question

(Inaudible)

Prime Minister

British Rail. Frequently, during the election when I flew [end p8] from Gatwick—as you know, we went down from Victoria to Gatwick by train.

I would quite like to travel more by train. It does have quite a number of security problems and so I have not gone long journeys by train. Long journeys I tend to by speed, by aircraft—shorter ones door-to-door by car, sometimes by helicopter.

Question

(Inaudible)

Prime Minister

I wish British Rail well. I have the greatest admiration for the Chairman of British Rail. I have great admiration for the way in which they are tackling their problems. I have seen some excellent work from British Rail engineering in the British EXPO pavilion, and I am very pro-British Rail, and it helped me win an election.

Question

(Inaudible)

Prime Minister

I think rather less than an hour on the schedule. I would obviously like it to last longer, but I think, if you look at the way in which the schedules are, that is about the time.

Question

(Inaudible) [end p9]

Prime Minister

No. We have had a number of initiatives recently, including one on legislation, which enables us to confiscate the proceeds of drug dealing as well as to have very heavy sentences on drug dealers.

I am not quite sure what the position is in Canada. Certainly, in Britain, although you can give pretty hefty sentences—not the death penalty obviously; we do not have the death penalty—you were not in fact able to get at the wealth some of them had accumulated by various devices out of their nefarious trade. We can now follow that wealth and confiscate it, and we hope that that will be an extra deterrent.

We have an increased number of Customs Officers dealing with it and we also have Customs Officers and people in other countries through which drugs are shipped to Britain, and we are cooperating with those countries to try to get as much information as we can about cargoes on the move. We try to stop them before they get to Britain.

We also have a programme both of drug rehabilitation and for young people in schools to try to prevent them from having anything to do with drugs. It is not quite the same as the United States one which, as you know, is ‘Just Say No’, though we do have a number of leaflets and a good deal of advice both for schoolchildren and for parents on how never to get involved in this terrible trade, and to give them some idea of what may happen if they do, and therefore use that as a deterrent. We we are really trying to tackle it and try [end p10] to dissuade people from ever purchasing it.

Secondly, above all, to try to catch the pedlars, and give hefty sentences and go after their money.

And third, we are very very vigilant on all ports of entry and airports of entry.

And fourth, to try to cooperate with the countries on the international network to see that we have more and more information about movements of drugs so that we could stop the movement, and we have been fairly successful in getting pretty big hauls through London and through the ports.

Question

(Inaudible)

Prime Minister

We try to counteract it in every way we can and we are working continually more with other countries, because you need as much information as you possibly can get.

I cannot say anything about particular people, because there may be cases pending.

Question

(Inaudible)

Isn't it interesting? You are far more interested in me being forced to change my mind than you are in solving the problem.

Let me remind you what the problem is.

The problem is how to bring apartheid to an end in South Africa. [end p11]

General economic sanctions have never been known to bring about internal change, so therefore, if you are interested in solving the problem as distinct from some of the other aspects of the matter, you know that in the end the problem will only be solved by negotiation and by dialogue between the South African Government and black South Africans.

The question which I have to ask other people is: ‘Are you interested in solving that problem by negotiation, as I am, or are you interested only in trying to solve it by force, by starving people, by adding poverty and unemployment to their other problems, or by turning to violence, when most of us think that we want a suspension of violence?’

Just let us keep our eye on the main target. The main target is to bring apartheid to an end. The only two ways are negotiation or force. We reject force and wish to go the way of negotiation. I believe that that is still possible and we will continue to persist and do everything we can to solve it.

You seem very easily just to disregard the terrible effects that general economic sanctions would have. I do not find it easy to sit around saying who shall lose their jobs and whose children shall starve. I recoil from it.

Question

(Inaudible)

Prime Minister

I do not even understand your question. After all, Sir Geoffrey Howe went to South Africa representing the twelve countries of the European Economic Community—twelve, not one. Geoffrey Howe is not out there as the British and Commonwealth Foreign Secretary. Sir Geoffrey Howe is out there as the present President of the Foreign Secretaries of the Community countries, the twelve.

What are you saying, that the twelve are isolated?

You will note what certain other people, black South Africans, have said about sanctions; about what the head of another country also in black South Africa has said about sanctions. That does not make me isolated.

Question

(Inaudible)

Prime Minister

I think perhaps you had better ask those who espouse the cause of general economic sanctions.

I ask you, as I did in those interviews that I did, to literally work it through precisely what would be likely to happen to whom, precisely what the retaliation would be, precisely what would be the effect on countries who depend upon the economy of South Africa, precisely what is the sense of asking countries like Canada and Britain to help the starving countries more and more and then at the same time to ask us to pursue a policy which will mean that more people will starve.

I am not asking people to pursue that policy. I am trying at [end p12] one and the same time to give aid to stop starvation in Ethiopia, which is after all a Communist country, and trying at the same time not to pursue policies which will cause more starvation, hunger and poverty in South Africa. So at least my policies are consistent.

So if you ask about general economic sanctions, I think you should ask other people why they persist in them and ask if there has been any case in history when general economic sanctions have brought about internal change, because it is internal change in South Africa that you want, and if that method will not bring it about, why does one not concentrate on measures that will be much more likely to bring it about?