PRIME MINISTER
Engagements
Mr. Dormand
asked the Prime Minister, if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 3 July.
The Prime Minister (Mrs. Margaret Thatcher)
This morning I presided at a meeting of the Cabinet and had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in this House I shall be having further meetings later today. This evening I shall attend a dinner given by Von Weizsäckerthe President of the Federal Republic of Germany.
Mr. Dormand
How does the Prime Minister account for the massive gap between what she says her Government are doing for education and the National Health Service and what the public say is really happening?
The Prime Minister
It is up to us to get the facts over more effectively than we have. I shall try to do that now. As the hon. Gentleman knows, more in real terms is being spent per pupil in the education system than ever before and there is a bigger proportion of teachers to pupils [column 1163]—[Hon. Members: “Answer the question.” ] I am answering the question. Hon Gentlemen might not like the answer. More money is being spent than ever before. That also applies to the National Health Service. That has resulted in more patients being treated, and being treated better than before.
Mr. J. Enoch Powell
In view of the outcome of the referendum last Sunday in the Irish Republic, does the Prime Minister recognise that the Irish Prime Minister is no longer in a position to deliver any commitment that he may have made or suggested to secure an amendment of articles 2 and 3 of the constitution of the Republic?
The Prime Minister
The right hon. Gentleman will know that a referendum in the Irish Republic is not a matter for me. He will also be the first to know that agreements are made between the Government of the United Kingdom and the Government of the Republic of Ireland, and not between persons.
Q2. Mr. Proctor
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 3 July.
The Prime Minister
I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Proctor
While regretting the necessity, is my right hon. Friend aware that all law-abiding citizens who live and work in London, especially those who live in Tottenham and Brixton and who were subjected to tyranny last year, will support the measures announced by the Home Secretary last night?
The Prime Minister
I agree that all on the Government side will support the measures proposed by Douglas Hurdthe Home Secretary. The Government have consistently given the police the extra support that they need, whether in manpower, resources or equipment. That has been our policy, and it will continue to be our policy.
Mr. Ashton
Will the Prime Minister make a statement today on the fact that one of her Cabinet Ministers has asked all members of the Conservative party to complain continually about Left-wing bias on the BBC? Does she think that the BBC is there simply as a propaganda tool of the Government, or does she believe in its impartiality and integrity?
The Prime Minister
My right hon. Friend Norman Tebbitthe Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster has asked for a monitoring system to find out the facts. I believe that that is the right way to go about it.
Q3. Mr. Adley
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 3 July.
The Prime Minister
I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Adley
In the light of the Peacock report, and notwithstanding that a statement is to be made shortly, will my right hon. Friend, especially in view of chapter 8, please give a categorical assurance that her Government have no intention of seeking to introduce any legislation to put advertising on the BBC?
The Prime Minister
I give a categorical assurance that the Government which I lead will study very thoroughly the plan, about which we shall hear later this afternoon.
Mr. Frank Cook
The Prime Minister has recently received most readily rings of roses and sycophantic posies from her Republican puppet-masters. Will she call to mind [column 1164]today the efforts of the same paymasters to foster destabilisation in areas such as Chile, Nicaragua, Libya, Cuba and more recently the United Nations, from which they are withholding financial support? Bearing that in mind and putting it together with her recent standing in the opinion polls, will she tell the House what she knows of the activities in this country of certain individuals anonymously—that is, C for certain, I for individuals and A for anonymously who seek to foster and foment the organisation, the financing——
Mr. Speaker
Order. This is not an Adjournment debate, come on.
Mr. Cook
—and the political direction of some destabilised pseudo-politicians. That is, S for some, D for destabilised, P for pseudo-politicians
Mr. Speaker
Order. It is unfair to take as long as that.
The Prime Minister
I answer for this Government, and in terms of Nicaragua we note that the International Court of Justice called on both parties to co-operate with the efforts of the Contadora Group and to seek a lasting peace in Central America. That is our policy. On Chile, we deeply regret the deaths that have recently occurred and condemn violence from whatever quarter. We take every opportunity to urge the Chilean Government to take early steps to ensure the orderly and peaceful restoration of democracy in Chile.
Mr. Higgins
Has the First Lord of the Treasury seen today's judgment of the European Court of Justice? That judgment has just been published and holds that the European Community's 1986 budget is not legal but that payments have been made under it. Will my right hon. Friend take steps to claw back this amount through reduced expenditure by the Community in future? More fundamentally, will she take steps to ensure that in future the amount of revenue that is approved restricts expenditure rather than allows profligate expenditure to go on unabated?
The Prime Minister
We wholeheartedly welcome the judgment of the European Court of Justice. It vindicates the Council's contention that the European Assembly's President acted illegally in adopting the 1986 budget without the Council's agreement. As my right hon. Friend knows, there are certain provisions under which payments to the Community go on, in accordance with the due proportion of last year's budget, which, I believe, is legal. Of course we will look at the full implications of the judgment and find a way to let my right hon. Friend know our decisions.
Dr. Owen
Is not the real lesson of the CPSA ballot that workplace balloting is always open to serious objection? Would not the Prime Minister have been better advised to put the onus of proof on those who wished to depart from postal balloting? Does she agree that the norm should be postal balloting?
The Prime Minister
As the right hon. Gentleman is aware, there are two arguments about ballots. One is the argument that he has effectively advanced, that it is argued by some that postal ballots seem to provide the least scope for manipulation. That is why we enourage unions to make use of them through our ballot fund scheme, and unions can always do that if they wish. The other argument is that the number of people voting tends to be [column 1165]higher in ballots held at the workplace, and that is an important factor to consider. It is not easy to come down on one side or the other, but all unions that wish to have postal ballots can have finance for them.
Mr. Phillip Oppenheim
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 3 July.
The Prime Minister
I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Oppenheim
Will my right hon. Friend take time later today to consider the depressing news that most of our so-called EEC partners have decided against following our lead and against effective liberalisation of the European airline market? Will this not result in unnecessary extra costs on both consumers and businesses, and is it not ironic that those who are often fastest in deploying European rhetoric are often the slowest to act when the interests of their inefficient, state-run airlines are at stake?
The Prime Minister
My hon. Friend has made his point very effectively. It is, of course, quite true that the European Council is a long way short of agreement on worthwhile liberalisation of European air services. Britain and the Netherlands have led the way. We hope to pursue this very much more during our presidency and the Commission has said that, in the absence of agreement in the Council, it may begin independent action under article 89 of the treaty against airline cartels. In the meantime, we shall do our best to take the matter forward. Our record is excellent.
Mr. Kinnock
Has the Prime Minister seen the admission made yesterday by the Secretary of State for Employment that shortages of specialist teachers are the major constraint on technical education? Is she aware that the shortage of specialist teachers in mathematics, science and technology subjects and languages is serious and widespread in secondary schools? What will she do to ensure that the shortages in those vital subjects are overcome by the beginning of the new term in September?
The Prime Minister
As the right hon. Gentleman is aware, this is one matter that is being considered by ACAS in the discussions that it is having on teachers' pay and on much wider matters. May I point out that specialist teaching is also being studied in an inquiry in Scotland as part of the wider matter of teacher's pay and the possible new structures for teachers' pay. The Government would like, if need be, to get the extra teachers by paying them extra on the grounds that we cannot get mathematics and physics teachers at the present rates of pay, because the demand for them in industry is so great. We have a duty to children to try to obtain those teachers, but the objections to that come not from the Government but from the National Union of Teachers.
Mr. Kinnock
Does the Prime Minister imagine for one moment, as a former Secretary of State for Education and Science, that the allocation of premiums to teachers in shortage subjects would be satisfactory as a way of rewarding teachers, with the present general feeling among teachers in all subjects, and in primary schools, that they are undervalued and underpaid in our society?
The Prime Minister
What the right hon. Gentleman is saying is that he absolutely refuses to give permission to the way to get extra mathematics and physics teachers to teach our children. Children, too, have rights.
[column 1166]Mr. Kinnock
May I ask the right hon. Lady to take the advice of Her Majesty's inspectors, who have a non-partisan interest in these matters, and to inquire of them whether they believe that the way to repair the grave shortages in the education system is to pay premiums to some teachers, with all the consequences of demoralisation that will occur—[Interruption.] that is the reality, I give fair warning—in other areas of the curriculum that are vital, although not so subject to shortages at present?
The Prime Minister
The right hon. Gentleman asked about getting specialist teachers in mathematics and physics. Therefore, he accepts that children need extra teachers. I am saying that one way of getting them—possibly the only effective way—is to pay a premium. He is saying that he would rather we did not have teachers and that the children did not get them.
Q5. Mr. Wood
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 3 July.
The Prime Minister
I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Wood
Is my right hon. Friend aware of the concern felt by Conservative Members about the allegations concerning the election of a Militant supporter to the leadership of a Civil Service union? Is it not true that, despite the words of the Leader of the Opposition, neither Militant nor its methods have been brought to an end?
The Prime Minister
My hon. Friend is right in the conclusions that he reaches. The elections in that union are a matter for the union itself, or, if any member is aggrieved, for the courts to resolve.
Mr. Dubs
What action does the Prime Minister intend to take in the light of the clear evidence that racial discrimination is practised in the British Army?
The Prime Minister
I know of no such evidence and no such practice. I believe it is totally untrue.
Dunchurch
Q6. Mr. Pawsey
asked the Prime Minister if she has any plans to make an official visit to Dunchurch near Rugby.
The Prime Minister
At present I have no plans to do so.
Mr. Pawsey
My right hon. Friend will understand that my constituents living in Dunchurch and Rugby will naturally be disappointed at that reply. Will she consider a question which they would have asked her, had she visited Dunchurch, about the effect that Greek dumping of cheap cement would have on Rugby Portland Cement? Is she aware that the dumping of that cheap cement will undermine the cement industry in the United Kingdom? Will she bear in mind that that cement is cheap because it enjoys a subsidy from the Greek Government of some 18 per cent.? Will she say what action her Administration will take to repair matters?
The Prime Minister
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for giving me notice of a matter which is of considerable importance to his constituents. My hon. Friend is right. The silo of Greek cement arrived at Tilbury on 18 June, and the United Kingdom industry fears that it will be the [column 1167]start of regular shipments. It has made representations about the fact that the cement is subsidised by the Greek Government. My hon. Friend Lord Eltonthe Minister of State, Department of the Environment, will be discussing the matter with the industry's representatives shortly, but I am not over-optimistic about the result because, as my hon. [column 1168]Friend knows, the subsidy has been approved by the European Commission until 31 December 1986 as part of the transitional arrangements for Greece joining the Community. However, we shall do everything we can to help my hon. Friend and his constituents.