Speeches, etc.

Margaret Thatcher

House of Commons PQs

Document type: Speeches, interviews, etc.
Venue: House of Commons
Source: Hansard HC [93/145-50]
Editorial comments: 1515-1530.
Importance ranking: Major
Word count: 2245
Themes: Defence (general), Education, Industry, Privatized & state industries, Energy, Trade, Labour Party & socialism, Law & order, Science & technology, Social security & welfare, Strikes & other union action
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PRIME MINISTER

Engagements

Q1. Mr. Flannery

asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 4 March.

The Prime Minister (Mrs. Margaret Thatcher)

This morning I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in the House, I shall be having further meetings later today.

Mr. Flannery

Is it not a matter of the deepest public concern that many old people have died and are dying of hypothermia in this bitter cold winter? How could the Prime Minister and the Government stand idly by and watch these poor people in cold, unheated rooms waiting for approaching death? What will happen now? Will the rich and wealthy members of the Government blame everyone but themselves, when everyone knows exactly who is to blame for the deaths of many poor old people?

The Prime Minister

May I make three points in reply to the hon. Gentleman. First, spending on help with heating has increased dramatically from 1978 until now. [column 146]In 1978, £90 million was spent on providing help with heating, and we are now spending £400 million. There has been an increase in expenditure of £140 million in real terms. Secondly, the number of those eligible for heating additions has increased greatly. The House will be aware that 90 per cent. of supplementary pensioners are now receiving heating additions, compared with 70 per cent. in 1978–79. Thirdly, in addition to the £400 million that is already being spent, extra help in the form of severe weather payments is available in almost all of the 500 DHSS area officers throughout the country.

Mr. Ward

Will my right hon. Friend ensure that any member of the Civil Service who frustrates the efforts of the fraud squad to prevent the pilfering of public money by claimants is dismissed instantly?

The Prime Minister

I hope that no one will frustrate the efforts of the fraud squad, which is entirely independent. Its efforts must be allowed to bear fruit.

Mr. Kinnock

Will the Prime Minister join me and hon. Members on both sides of the House in applauding the initiative of Age Concern in providing 1,000 survival kits to old people, who it considers are most at risk from the cold weather? Does the right hon. Lady share Age Concern's view that, while it is doing what it can, the Government must act by issuing urgent heating allowances? Will she give the country an assurance that she will change the system of helping with heating costs so that we shall never again experience a winter in which poor people freeze to death for want of help with their heating bills?

The Prime Minister

The right hon. Gentleman heard that help with heating bills has greatly exceeded anything that was made available in real terms during the lifetime of the previous Labour Government. He has heard also that of the 500 DHSS offices, almost all are making available the payment of extra severe weather payments. My right hon. Friend Norman Fowlerthe Secretary of State for Social Services has arranged for massive advertising in the national press on the availability of extra help with fuel bills. This is being supplemented by considerable local effort.

Mr. Kinnock

Does the Prime Minister agree that the £140 million is somewhat misleading, in that it should be compared with the £1.5 billion which has been denied to old-age pensioners in Britain as a consequence of changing the formula for calculating old-age pensions? Does she further agree that pensioners and poor people are interested, not in swapping figures, but in how they pay their heating bills? May I ask her again whether, in view of the tragic experience of this year and last, she can assure us that she will change the system to provide a more generous, simpler and better advertised system of providing help with heating bills so that we never experience another winter of disconnection?

The Prime Minister

The amount available exceeds anything that was available before. The right hon. Gentleman is aware of that. I repeat that £400 million is available for help with heating. In addition, almost all of the 500 supplementary benefit offices are open for help with severe weather payments. They are paid restrospectively, and there will be a massive advertising campaign to help with that. The right hon. Gentleman does not like the extent of the help that is available.

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Mr. Kinnock

I acknowledge the extent. It is the effectiveness about which the right hon. Lady must answer. Why, if there is such help, has our death rate during the winter been three times that of the United States of America and four times that of Sweden? Will she now make changes that ensure that we stop the incidence of hypothermia? Will she recognise that the number of deaths last year was higher than the year before, and that the number of deaths this year will be higher again? Will she stop this awful mounting crisis by changing her policies?

The Prime Minister

Will the right hon. Gentleman recognise that £400 million is available now, as compared with £90 million during the winter of discontent, when not one Labour Member raised the matter in the House? Moreover, nearly 500 DHSS offices are open now for severe weather payments. What the right hon. Gentleman has been asking for is happening. He does not like the fact that it is being done.

Q2. Mrs. Currie

asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 4 March.

The Prime Minister

I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.

Mrs. Currie

Has my right hon. Friend had time today to read Today and to reflect on the fact that modern technology also creates jobs? It does not just destroy them. Has she had time to reflect on the fact that none of that would have been possible without the Government's magnificent trade union legislation and their fostering of an atmosphere of free enterprise?

The Prime Minister

I agree that technology creates jobs. It enables industries to stay competitive. The record of our manufacturing and extractive industries in increasing productivity is excellent. All involved in them deserve congratulation.

Mr. Hume

Now that we are getting a substantial radioactive leak a week from Sellafield, does the Prime Minister agree that public concern has become public alarm and that there is no alternative to closing the plant down?

The Prime Minister

No, Sir. The nuclear power industry has the best safety record of any energy industry. It would be as well if that were fully recognised by some of those who criticise Sellafield. The Health and Safety Executive is carrying out an audit. I welcome the audit and believe that the facts should reassure people.

Q3. Mr. Michael Forsyth

asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 4 March.

The Prime Minister

I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.

Mr. Forsyth

Is my right hon. Friend aware that Central regional council, which last year gave £216,000 to the striking miners, is proposing school closures in rural areas this year to save less than £50,000? Will my right hon. Friend consider changing the system of funding education to reflect, per capita, the number of pupils attending schools, so that parental preference rather than political expediency rules the roost?

The Prime Minister

As my hon. Friend knows from the Bill now before the House, the Government are concerned to get greater parental influence in the choice [column 148]of schools. All parents pay for education out of their pockets as taxpayers and ratepayers and are entitled to greater choice than they have, and all options are being considered.

Mr. Eastham

May I draw the attention of the Prime Minister to the fact that there is a mass lobby of engineers from British Leyland bitterly protesting against the possible sale of their industry to foreign interests? May I remind the Prime Minister that, when the sale of Westland Helicopters was going through, it was claimed by the Government that the work force had been consulted? Will the Prime Minister give an assurance that the work force of British Leyland will be consulted before there is a sale?

The Prime Minister

The hon. Gentleman will recall that the Government were not interfering with financial help in a rescue package with Westland. That was the basis of the decision. He will also recall that there has been, and continues to be, enormous help given to British Leyland. He is well aware of what the position is at the moment. The intention to make bids, or the indication that bids are to be made, should be in today, and we are not in a position to make any statement until all those bids are in and have been considered.

Mr. Beith

What contribution towards reconciliation in the coal industry can be made by a colliery review procedure which the National Coal Board ignores whenever it finds against it? What is sacrosanct now?

The Prime Minister

The hon. Gentleman is well aware that the colliery review procedure is advisory and that the final word is in the hands of the National Coal Board. That was always so.

Mr. Dickens

Will my right hon. Friend concede that the last Labour Government did very little for old-age pensioners? Will she also concede that it was the Labour party which snatched away the Christmas bonus which the Tory party introduced? Will she also concede that it was Tories who reintroduced the Christmas bonus for pensioners? How does my right hon. Friend think that Members of the Labour party can accuse us, in the way they have done earlier today, when they have been such a disgrace in the past?

The Prime Minister

I could not improve on the excellent way in which my hon. Friend puts the case. I hope that hon. Members will also remember that only last year the Opposition were supporting a strike that was designed to rob pensioners of heating and light.

Q4. Mr. Meadowcroft

asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 4 March.

The Prime Minister

I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.

Mr. Meadowcroft

Most people in need of extra heating have no real choice of the kind of dwelling they inhabit, and heating costs vary widely. Why do the Government base their heating costs on the individual, rather than on the cost of heating?

The Prime Minister

As the hon. Gentleman is aware, the rule has been changed since last year. Last year's rule was not found to be satisfactory and it is therefore now a matter of discretion, and that should enable us to give just the kind of latitude the hon. Gentleman wishes to have.

Sir Edward du Cann

Will my right hon. Friend look again at the figures for the appalling decline in Britain's [column 149]merchant fleet? Is she aware that hon. Members in all parts of the House are now desperately concerned about this matter and its implications, both for our defence policy and economically? We could not mount another Falklands operation if we wished, because we do not have the ships. More than 80 per cent. of British trade is now carried in ships with foreign flags. Is she aware that there are things that could be done to change the situation? Will she instruct her senior colleagues to see that they are done, and done without delay?

The Prime Minister

I know my right hon. Friend's interest in this subject, but I must disagree with him when he says that we could not mount another Falklands operation. We could. I would like to make that clear. The Government fully recognise the role that the merchant fleet plays in times of emergency and war, and the requirements are subject to continuous review. The merchant fleet remains capable of meeting all the needs of the armed [column 150]forces. We have long-standing NATO arrangements to pool Alliance merchant shipping should there be war. The important thing for the future of our merchant marine is to ensure that British shipping can compete with the fleets of other nations on costs. That is one of the problems.

Mr. Terry Davis

In view of the widespread impression that the Cabinet is biased in favour of a takeover of parts of the British motor industry by General Motors and the rumours that are now spreading in Birmingham, will the Prime Minister tell us whether any member of the Cabinet has a relative working for General Motors or one of its subsidiaries?

The Prime Minister

I resent the implication of the hon. Gentleman's question. He is aware that bids are in today and that they will be considered, and they will be considered with one thing in mind—what will give British industry the best chance of jobs.