PRIME MINISTER
Engagements
Q1. Mr. Penhaligon
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 21 June.
The Prime Minister (Mrs. Margaret Thatcher)
This morning I presided at a meeting of the Cabinet and had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in the House I shall be having further meetings later today.
Mr. Penhaligon
Is the Prime Minister aware that, to many, the miners' dispute seems to be going from bad to worse? We have all viewed scenes that bring fear to those of us who believe in democracy. Can the Prime Minister, from her great office of state, think of any initiative that could be taken to prevent this desperate dispute going on into the winter months?
The Prime Minister
The strike will end when the miners return to work and accept the very good offers that have been made, as 50,000 miners have already done. More are returning each day. Two of the three unions are already sitting down with the National Coal Board and are prepared to work out a revised “Plan for Coal” . If more would follow their excellent example and take advantage [column 472]of a very good pay offer and the best-ever redundancy terms—already some 16,000 people have inquired about redundancy—the strike would be over. That would be a great relief for everyone.
Mr. Hanley
Is my right hon. Friend broadly satisfied with the performance of Ministers at the Department of Transport? If so, does she believe that they could do a better job than the GLC in regulating traffic in London, especially in the Talgarth road-North End road area, where motorists from my constituency are being caused much disturbance?
The Prime Minister
The Department of Transport is doing an extremely good job. I do not think it is the Department's task to sort out the Talgarth road problems.
Mr. Hattersley
As the Contingency Reserve that was announced in the February public expenditure White Paper is being so rapidly depleted, how does the Prime Minister propose to meet the Government's commitment when the reserve is finally exhausted? Will that be done by increasing borrowing or, as we fear, by another public expenditure review?
The Prime Minister
I am not quite certain, if the Contingency Reserve were to be exhausted—which it is not—which course the right hon. Gentleman would be recommending. The Chancellor laid out the choices in the Budget very effectively. The Government believe that they must contain public expenditure within the plans that we have already published. The Contingency Reserve is not exhausted.
Mr. Hattersley
The frivolous way in which the Prime Minister deals with this does nothing for international confidence in the British economy. She must know that the dispute in the coal mines has already cost £1 billion. She must know that there is a substantial payment to be made to the EEC which was not anticipated when the Contingency Reserve was set up. She must know that the Government's estimate of public expenditure, pay, and unemployment payments has already been exceeded. How do the Government intend to meet the shortfall?
The Prime Minister
Our intention is to keep public expenditure within the planned totals. The Contingency Reserve is not exhausted. I am not quite sure what the right hon. Gentleman is trying to do or say, but he must be pretty desperate to have asked his second question.
Q2. Mr. Kenneth Carlisle
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 21 June.
The Prime Minister
I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Carlisle
Is my right hon. Friend aware that some 30 pits have already suffered serious physical damage as a result of the strike in the coal, industry? As we plan to invest £2 million per day in the future of coal, is it not a tragedy that so many pits and jobs should be put at risk in that way?
The Prime Minister
Yes, it is. Three faces have already had to be closed—one at Rossington, one at Bold and one at Tilmanstone—and others are in danger. One hopes that the miners will return to work before any more faces have to be closed. So long as they stay out, more jobs will be in jeopardy, because strikes destroy jobs [column 473]not just in the coal industry but in steel and other industries and in British Rail. Indeed, strikes are the greatest job destroyer of all.
Mr. Concannon
The Prime Minister constantly prays in aid the 50,000 miners who are at work, as though they believed in her policy, or Mr. MacGregor 's policy. Is she aware that that is not so and that their problem lies elsewhere? [Hon. Members: “Put it to the vote.” ] It has been put to the vote in my area. Is she further aware that some of us are not against Government interference in the dispute but that it is the way in which the Government intervene that matters?
The Prime Minister
As the right hon. Gentleman will be the first to admit, the miners in his area put the matter to a vote and abided by the result. In our view that is because they believe, as we believe, that coal has a very good future and that this Government have done more than any other to improve the prospects for that future, having invested £2 million for every day that we have been in power.
Q3. Mr. Robert Atkins
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for 21 June.
The Prime Minister
I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Atkins
After due reflection on the results of the European election, will my right hon. Friend remind the House that the Conservative party achieved 13 more seats than the Labour party and half a million more votes? Does she agree, therefore, that in a general election the Conservatives would be returned to government and that only the Labour party leadership could describe such a defeat as victory?
The Prime Minister
I am grateful to my hon. Friend. I would add just two things to his excellent list. First, it was the fourth parliamentary election in a row to be won by the Government. I refer to the general election of 1979, the Euro-election of 1979, the general election of June 1983 and the Euro-election of June 1984. That is a first-class record. Secondly, the margin by which we won the Euro-election was greater than that in seven of the past 12 general elections.
Dr. Owen
In view of the fact that British Steel now risks losing customers and its workers risk losing their jobs, and in view of the massive cost of the police operation and the growing strain on the police of having to resist picketing action, will the Prime Minister explain to the House and to the country why she has not suggested to British Steel that it is time it invoked the provisions of the civil law against secondary picketing?
The Prime Minister
The right hon. Gentleman has asked the same question two or three times in one form or another and he will receive the same answer. Those in charge of the nationalised industries are free to invoke the law when they so choose. It is a decision for management to take.
Mr. Hal Miller
Is my right hon. Friend aware that Opposition Members have been writing to trade unions inviting them to take additional steps, including industrial action, to clinch victory for the miners? In the light of the Government's record on investment in the mines, the new pits that have been opened and the NCB undertaking that there will be no compulsory redundancies, does my right [column 474]hon. Friend agree that victory for the miners and their families would be a return to work in face of the political activities of Mr. Scargill and his bully boys?
The Prime Minister
I agree with my hon. Friend. The pay award keeps the miners 25 per cent. above the average industrial wage, which has always been an important point for them; our investment in the industry exceeds that of any other Government and shows great faith in the future of the mines, and for those voluntarily leaving the industry redundancy payments are better than ever before. Therefore, for all those involved in the coal industry there is a good future if they will only seize it and return to work, thus assuring the future of the industry and those who work in it and in associated industries such as steel and the many engineering industries.
Mr. O'Brien
In view of the recent report by the NEDC, which described Britain as becoming a Third-world industrial nation, will the Prime Minister consider the fact that there must be more investment in industrial development, especially in areas where coal mining has been run down and mines have been closed? Will she consider that report and agree to invest more capital in areas that need industrial development?
The Prime Minister
I recognise the hon. Gentleman's point. He will be aware that Mr. MacGregor has set up an organisation to achieve jobs in areas affected by closures. He will be pleased to note that total fixed investment grew by 10 per cent. in real terms between the first quarters of 1983 and 1984. It is productive investment that matters.
Lord James Douglas-Hamilton
Does my right hon. Friend agree that because of the importance of the Ravenscraig steel plant to the Scottish economy, which was highlighted by the Select Committee on Scottish Affairs some time ago, any move to put it at risk may lead to substantially more unemployment in Scotland?
The Prime Minister
Moves to put any of the steel plants at risk will lead to substantial unemployment, not only in the steel industry, where it is easy to lose customers to the continent, but in the pits, because the steel industry takes 4 million tonnes of coal a year from the National Coal Board. Such moves would also lead to substantial unemployment in the railway industry, which carries coal from the pits to the steel plants. Unless those plants are kept working, we shall have widespread unemployment. It is interesting that Opposition Members often express anxiety about unemployment, yet they support strikes that increase unemployment.
Q4. Mr. Janner
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 21 June.
The Prime Minister
I refer the hon. and learned Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Janner
As the height of the tourist season is approaching, will the Prime Minister spare time to give attention to the harassment and frequent delays that beset lawful visitors to the United Kingdom at Heathrow airport? Is she aware that a constituent of mine waited from 3 o'clock one Sunday afternoon until 1 o'clock in the morning for three Indian sportsmen who had come to take part in a tournament? Does she recognise that that is unworthy treatment and brings the country into ill repute?
[column 475]The Prime Minister
I believe that the service at Heathrow airport is good, but if the hon. and learned Gentleman will write to me about that specific case, I shall look into it.
Mr. Aitken
Will my right hon. Friend find time to study today's reports, which describe how the activities of picketing teachers at a school in Kent have resulted in 400 pupils being turned away from school in the middle of their examinations? Does she agree that to jeopardise the educational future of children in that way is unacceptable?
The Prime Minister
I agree with my hon. Friend that it is utterly disgraceful to jeopardise the future of children in that way. It is an appalling example to children when teachers go on strike. The children will think that they can do the same to get their own way.
Q5. Mr. Lofthouse
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 21 June.
The Prime Minister
I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Lofthouse
Is the Prime Minister aware that tomorrow I shall attend the funeral of Mr. Joseph Green, [column 476]a picket who was killed on the picket lines last Friday? Will she bear in mind that she has the power to bring the two sides together and help them to come to a satisfactory and honourable settlement? If she fails to do that, does she realise that the mining industry and others will hold her responsible for future injuries and deaths?
The Prime Minister
The hon. Gentleman knows full well that that is not true. He will have a sorrowful occasion tomorrow, as will the family concerned, and he knows that everyone deeply regrets such a death.
With regard to what he said about the coal industry, he knows that two out of the three unions of mineworkers are already prepared to sit down and negotiate with the National Coal Board on the “Plan for Coal” . He knows that 50,000 miners are at work. He knows that there is a good prospect for the coal industry. He knows full well that uneconomic pits have always had to be closed. He knows full well that 330 pits were closed by Labour Governments over 11 years and that we have closed only 92 pits in nine years. He knows the facts and the prospects for the industry, and I hope he will urge people to return to work.