PRIME MINISTER
Engagements
Q1. Mr. Simon Hughes
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 3 May.
The Prime Minister (Mrs. Margaret Thatcher)
This morning I presided at a meeting of the Cabinet and had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in the House I shall be having further meetings later today.
Mr. Hughes
Will the Prime Minister reflect on the fact that since she moved into her two new houses five years ago the number of homeless people in Britain has increased from 57,000 to 80,000? Will she further reflect that since she took on her new job five years ago the number of jobless has increased from 1.25 million to 3 million? If she fulfils her determined plan to be in office for another five years, are we to expect more than 100,000 homeless and more than 5 million unemployed?
The Prime Minister
Since one moved in some five years ago, 1.4 million more people own their own homes, [column 535]the dwelling stock has risen by 700,000 and the spending on home improvement has multiplied eight times. With regard to those people unfortunately without a job, I remind the hon. Gentleman that the proportion of the population in work in Britain is better than in most other European countries in the Community—and certainly higher than in France.
Mr. Kilfedder
In view of the allegation made by some nationalist politicians, who produced the Dublin forum report yesterday, that the Government are responsible for a political vacuum in Northern Ireland, will the Prime Minister point out—at least to those who are genuinely concerned about that part of the United Kingdom—that the Northern Ireland Assembly still exists despite attempts to destroy it before it has had a reasonable trial? Will she further point out that the Assembly is working energetically within its limitations to deal with the realities of the present position in the Province and is attempting to help Protestants and Roman Catholics alike?
Will the right hon. Lady urge those constitutional politicians boycotting the Assembly to take their places and participate in the dialogue with the elected representatives of different political and religious groups?
The Prime Minister
I agree with the hon. Gentleman that those elected to the Northern Ireland Assembly—with which he has a distinguished connection—can freely express their views there, as they were elected to do.
Mr. Kinnock
On this election day, will the Prime Minister tell us whether she is glad or sorry that she, who was going to roll back the state, has actually brought a greater concentration of power to the central state than ever before in British peace-time history?
The Prime Minister
That just is not true. We have abolished controls on prices, incomes, industrial development certificates, office development certificates, and also abolished many other controls, including exchange control. We have reduced the number of civil servants by the greatest number since the war.
Mr. Kinnock
The Prime Minister either does not know what she is doing or she has a very selective view of the past five years. Does she not recall that she has deprived 13 million people of their votes in the Greater London and metropolitan areas? Does she not understand the effect of imposing penalties and rate-capping on local services that are a matter of life and death for many people? Does she not understand the effect of making £8.8 billion worth of cuts in rate support grant on people whose rates have shot up because of that action? Does she not recall that is she who has made political obedience a condition of appointment to senior positions in the Civil Service, nationalised industry boards, wages councils and many other bodies, such as the area health authorities? If the right hon. Lady does not think that that is a process of centralisation and the assertion of central state control, she does not understand the word democracy.
The Prime Minister
With regard to what the right hon. Gentleman says about rates—I understand that he did not quarrel with any of my previous replies because they were all deadly accurate—in the four years from 1979 to 1983, prices rose by 55 per cent. and earnings by 65 per cent., but domestic rates went up by an average of 91 per cent. In 10 local authorities, mainly Labour-controlled, rates increased by 145 per cent. If people [column 536]cannot look to the Government to protect them, to whom can they look, especially when one of the functions of Parliament, although the right hon. Gentleman does not recognise it, is to check tax, including rates, and not to increase it as he would like to do?
Mr. Kinnock
The Prime Minister is the highest-taxing Prime Minister in the history of the British economy. Does she not realise that the effect of her policies has been to increase the rate burden on households from an average of £2.46 in 1979 to £6 in 1984? If the right hon. Lady is so keen on cutting taxes, why does she not start now for the poorest in our society, instead of making them pay for the ridiculous ambitions of her policy of starving this country into solvency?
The Prime Minister
The right hon. Gentleman is complaining about the height of rates, so he must be for rate-capping.
Mr. Warren
Will my right hon. Friend, in her gallant and worthy attempts to roll back the state's industrial frontiers, accept the fact that the appalling argument between the steel men and the miners' leaders is one where the suicidal stupidity of the miners' leaders is hallmarked by Mick McGahey 's remarks yesterday, when he said that by closing down industry he would not lose jobs? Is not the conflict one between the steel men, who know that only customers make jobs, and the miners' leaders, who do not know how to keep jobs?
The Prime Minister
I agree very much with my hon. Friend. The steel industry is a very good customer to coal and one would think that an industry wanting a good future would be careful to keep its customers.
Mr. Hickmet
Does my right hon. Friend agree that it is time for ISTC, NUR, ASLEF and other unions to abandon their support for the strike among some miners, especially when one bears in mind its disastrous effect on job prospects at Ravenscraig and Scunthorpe? Do not the actions of some miners' leaders demonstrate the ruthless political means they are prepared to use to achieve their objectives? Will my right hon. Friend find time today to inform the Leader of the Opposition that Conservatives, who represent the workers of this country, do not expect steel workers to pay 50p a week to striking miners?
The Prime Minister
I thank my hon. Friend. The fact is that strikes lose jobs, sometimes in the industry in which the strike occurs and sometimes in other industries as well. The right hon. Gentleman Neil Kinnockthe Leader of the Opposition is the strikers' friend.
Mr. Steel
Will the Prime Minister reassure the House that, contrary to newspaper speculation, she will honour her commitments to the nursing profession and implement the recommendations of the nurses' pay review body?
The Prime Minister
The review body report on nurses' pay has reached the Government, as have the reports of other review bodies. We shall be considering them together and hope to be in a position to make a statement after the Whitsun recess.
Q2. Mr. John Townend
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for 3 May.
The Prime Minister
I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Townend
Will my right hon. Friend take time today to reconsider the barristers' monopoly of right of [column 537]audience in the higher courts in the light of her remarks in January that the Government wanted to be seen to be tackling all monopolies, including those in the professions?
The Prime Minister
As my hon. Friend will know, that question was considered by the Royal Commission on legal services under Lord Benson, which reported that it would be against the interests of the client to extend the solicitors' right of audience from the lower to the higher courts. The Government accepted that advice in 1983, and it is too early to reconsider it.
Mr. Dormand
In response to Opposition Members' questions about the mining dispute and investment in the coal industry, the Prime Minister has several times said that the NCB should be allowed to get on with its job without Government interference. If that is the Government's policy and philosophy towards the nationalised industries, why, last year, did they force both the gas and electricity boards to put up their prices substantially, against their commercial judgment and in the face of their publicly stated objections?
The Prime Minister
The Government set objectives, including financial objectives, which are supposed to give a good return on taxpayers' money and which sometimes result in subsidies to the nationalised industries. The Government also set the external financing limits and then, broadly speaking, they leave management to get on with the job. That is what they are doing in the coal industry.
Q3. Mr. Penhaligon
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 3 May.
The Prime Minister
I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Penhaligon
On the fifth anniversary of the date on which the Prime Minister succeeded to office, would she care to reveal to the House what she believes to have been her biggest mistake so far?
The Prime Minister
Not enough to reveal.
Mr. Gould
What happened to the £457 million refund from the EEC which the Prime Minister told us she had negotiated? What happened to the 31 March deadline, the date by which, she told us, payment would be made, and what happened to the tough action which she said would be taken if payment were not made by the due date?
The Prime Minister
The 850 million ecu refund that has been negotiated for 1983 should, by virtue of the Stuttgart communiqué, have been repaid by 31 March this year. But the agreement is not legally binding. It was an agreement between Heads of Government, which I am the first to say—and which I do say to other Heads of [column 538]Government—they have gone back on. They will not all accept that, because they say that they did not agree to the communiqué. It was an agreement by word among Heads of Government in the communiqué. It is not a legally binding agreement, and so technically the Community is not in default. If we were to withhold at present it would be contrary to international law.
Mr. Baldry
Has my right hon. Friend had a chance to study yesterday's CBI survey, which shows that orders and optimism in industry are now greater than they have been for many a year, with healthier order books, higher output and high hopes for the coming year? Does not that survey show that Conservative economic policies are continuing to lead Britain back to economic prosperity?
The Prime Minister
Yes, Sir. The CBI survey was very good and optimistic this month. Industry now has a chance, because this Government have cut inflation to its lowest level for 15 years, manufacturing productivity has increased by 14 per cent., interest rates are 3 per cent. lower, and Government borrowing has fallen from 5.5 per cent. of gross domestic product to 3.25 per cent. Once again growth is increasing and is greater than in any other country in the Community.
Q7. Mr. Stephen Ross
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 3 May.
The Prime Minister
I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Ross
As the Prime Minister is determined to abolish the metropolitan counties and return those areas to single-tier authorities, will she consider providing my constituency of the Isle of Wight, which is the most over-governed constituency in the country, with one all-purpose authority, for which we would give three hearty cheers?
The Prime Minister
I am delighted to know that the hon. Gentleman is a great supporter of the Government's decision to abolish the GLC and metropolitan county councils. I thank him for his support and I shall ask my right hon. Friend Patrick Jenkinthe Secretary of State for the Environment to consider his request.
Mr. Gregory
Will my right hon. Friend impress upon the Government of Zimbabwe the importance of Bishop Able Muzorewa, who has been held for a considerable time, being brought to trial as soon as possible?
The Prime Minister
I am aware of that, but it is a matter for the Government of Zimbabwe and it is a matter in which we must not interfere. The bishop is not a British citizen, unlike other citizens on whose behalf we have made representations.