PRIME MINISTER
Engagements
Q1. Mr. Bidwell
asked the Prime Minister what are her official engagements for Thursday 2 February.
The Prime Minister (Mrs. Margaret Thatcher)
This morning I presided at a meeting of the Cabinet and had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. Later this afternoon I shall be departing for a visit to Hungary.
Mr. Bidwell
When the Prime Minister travels to Hungary, will she bear in mind that from 11 am on Monday morning to 11 am on Tuesday morning the London Broadcasting Company invited the people of London to telephone their views on the Government's proposal to abolish the GLC? Is she aware that of 12,745 calls, 82 per cent. were opposed to the Government's proposals? Is the right hon. Lady further aware that a Harris poll showed conclusively that the people of London, including many Tories, are increasingly becoming opposed to the stupidity of the Government on this issue?
The Prime Minister
The abolition of the GLC and the other metropolitan councils was a fundamental part of our manifesto on which we fought the election. The hon. Gentleman knows the result of that election.
Mr. Kinnock
As the Prime Minister is travelling to Hungary this evening, while she is there will she discuss the right of people to belong to independent trade unions?
The Prime Minister
I doubt it, but if I did I should also discuss the right not to belong to one.
Mr. Kinnock
I am sure that would be fascinating, but in respect of the great problems that she leaves behind as she goes to Hungary, is it not true that the no-disruption agreement offered by the trade unions yesterday met every one of the four objectives which the right hon. Lady set [column 398]to guarantee continuity and security? Is it not clear that she could have obtained such agreements and secured us dependable safeguards if only she had had the common sense and common decency properly to consult the unions beforehand? Now that the right hon. Lady knows that such an offer is readily available, why does she not get on with such consultations, instead of pursuing her invent-an-alibi-a-day, strategy, which is a demonstration not of strength but of considerable weakness?
The Prime Minister
I believe that the right course is to treat GCHQ like other intelligence agencies, and the Government's decision and the offer to the staff of GCHQ stand. If the unions, having heard the points that I have put to them, wish to meet me again, I am willing to do so.
Rev. Ian Paisley
Will the Prime Minister take time today to consult her colleague the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland about the appalling state of the prisons in Northern Ireland and about the explosion that took place in one of them last night? Will she also consult him about the Prison Governors Association, which announced that, because of a direction from the Northern Ireland Office, certain well-known IRA criminals had to be given positions of responsibility in the prison regime?
The Prime Minister
My right hon. Friend will do everything possible to improve the efficiency of the regimes in prisons. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will be the first to understand the very difficult task that prison officers have to carry out in those prisons and to welcome the way in which they carry it out.
Q2. Mr. Freud
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 2 February.
The Prime Minister
I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Freud
Does the Prime Minister accept that the abolition of the Greater London council and the metropolitan councils will deprive the arts of £35 million of direct aid? Having rate-capped the local authorities and given no concessions to private sponsors of the arts, and bearing in mind her party's opposition to the setting up of joint councils, will the right hon. Lady tell the House how the metropolitan theatres, orchestras, art galleries and museums will manage?
The Prime Minister
I hope that some of the GLC's contributions to the arts will be taken on by the local councils. The Government are prepared to consider the financial consequences as far as central Government are concerned.
Mr. Gorst
Why, at my right hon. Friend's meeting with the TUC yesterday, were the concessions offered by the TUC unacceptable? Are there any considerations other than the four already put forward by the Government at the back of my right hon. Friend's mind or the minds of other Ministers in declining to accept those concessions?
The Prime Minister
As my hon. Friend knows, provisions are specially made for intelligence agencies. They have applied for many years to avowed intelligence agencies. They also apply to the police force. We believe that those are the best provisions to apply to GCHQ.
Mr. Campbell-Savours
Has the Prime Minister seen the reply given by Mr. Winston Churchill on 25 February [column 399]1952, which is included in the memorandum by the secretary to the Cabinet on Ministers' private interests? It states:
“It is a principle of public life that Ministers must so order their affairs that no conflict arises or appears to arise between their private interests and their public duties.” —[Official Report, 25 February 1952; Vol. 496, c 702.]
In the light of that statement by Mr. Winston Churchill, will the Prime Minister state clearly to the House whether there was a conflict between her private family interests and her public duties in the Omani university deal?
The Prime Minister
There is no question of conflict arising between my private interests and public duties. My public duty is to get contracts and work for Britain. I do not distinguish between British companies, and cannot do so.
Mr. Fox
Is my right hon. Friend aware that at some polytechnics, including Leeds, Bradford and Huddersfield, certain subsidised courses are being run for shop stewards, the subject being to combat privatisation in the public sector? Is this—[Interruption.]
Mr. Speaker
Order. The hon. Gentleman has as much right as anybody else to ask questions.
Mr. Fox
Is it not a disgrace that the National Union of Public Employees and the education officers involved are using public money in that way, particularly as they are bringing in outside lecturers to sabotage Government policy?
The Prime Minister
I was not aware of the facts to which my hon. Friend draws attention. Of course I shall draw them to the attention of my right hon. Friend Sir Keith Josephthe Secretary of State for Education and Science. I think that many workers in industry would wholly disagree with combating privatisation; for example those in the National Freight Company, who, having had a management buy-out, are doing very well indeed.
Q3. Mr. Sean Hughes
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for 2 February.
The Prime Minister
I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Hughes
In view of the increase in the unemployment figures announced today, will the Prime Minister say whether she agrees with Whitehall sources that there is no obvious explanation for the increase, or does she believe that unemployment is explicable?
The Prime Minister
Unemployment is explicable in the sense that one gets more jobs only when one has really competitive industry producing goods which other people may buy. Until then we shall not get more jobs. Today's unemployment figures are disappointing. They are for one month only. The answer that I have given is the only way to get unemployment down.
Mr. Cyril D. Townsend
I agree with my right hon. Friend that the United Nations peacekeeping force has no part to play in the Falklands, but can she assure the House that the Government believe that it is in the interests of the United Kingdom and the Falkland Islanders, as well as the new liberal regime in Argentina, that there should be early talks on the resumption of trade and diplomatic links with Argentina?
The Prime Minister
We believe that it is in the interests of this country, the people of Argentina, and the [column 400]people of the Falklands that we should establish better relations with Argentina. We wish to start with commercial relations. We have no intention at all of negotiating on sovereignty.
Water Rates
Q4. Mr. Wigley
asked the Prime Minister if the Government will introduce measures to control water rates.
The Prime Minister
No, Sir. The average domestic water services bill is about 20p per day. We continue to press water authorities to improve their efficiency, so as to keep increases in charges as low as possible. For this financial year the average increase in main charges was 5 per cent.
Mr. Wigley
In view of the draconian powers that the Prime Minister is taking to rate cap the rates levied by democratically elected local councils, is she aware of the misgivings in Wales at the very high water rates that are being levied by a non-elected body that has powers of taxation without representation and hits particularly at those on low incomes? Will she now move towards a system where there can be a water rate rebate?
The Prime Minister
No. I believe that water rates are not a tax, but are a charge for services supplied. They are therefore different in nature from the fundamental local authority rates. With regard to the charges of the Welsh water authority, I understand that the authority is consulting the local consumer advisory council about various proposals to redistribute charges between and within various groups of consumers. I am sure the hon. Gentleman realises that this is a matter for the Welsh water authority.
Later—
Mr. O'Brien
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. When the Prime Minister replied to the hon. Member for Caernarfon (Mr. Wigley), she said that water charges were for services. Would she explain——
Mr. Speaker
Order. I did not see the hon. Gentleman rise to ask a question when that matter was being discussed.
Engagements
Q5. Mr. Hirst
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 2 February.
The Prime Minister
I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Hirst
Is my right hon. Friend aware that the Government's commitment to help in the reconstruction of Scott Lithgow is widely welcomed in Scotland? Does she agree that the only practicable solution to rebuilding international customer confidence at Scott Lithgow is the acquisition of the yard by a major private contractor?
The Prime Minister
Yes. Taxpayers have already shown the extensive help they have given to Scott Lithgow by providing something like £165 million since nationalisation. The story of the rig contract between British Shipbuilders and Britoil is a sad one. The right way now is for the contract to go to a new operator, who can make a totally fresh start. If the rig is built successfully, there will be a basically good performance on which to get further orders.
[column 401]Mrs. Clare Short
Will the Prime Minister find time to consider the problem that she has of Fascist and racist groups operating at all levels in her party? Will she tell the House and the black community in Britain what action she proposes to take?
The Prime Minister
There is no racism in the Conservative party. We believe in equal opportunities for all our citizens, whatever their background.
Mr. Brinton
Does my right hon. Friend agree that the “Panorama” programme last Monday was a disgraceful example—[Interruption.]
[column 402]Mr. Speaker
Order. I do not think that the Prime Minister can hear the question. Will the hon. Member please repeat it?
Mr. Brinton
I should be delighted to do so. I am sorry that my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister could not hear me. Does she agree that the BBC “Panorama” programme last Monday was a disgraceful example of sensational journalism?
The Prime Minister
I hope that those whose names were mentioned in the programme, and who feel that they were not properly represented, will take the matter up with the BBC.