Mrs. Thatcher
Now, gentlemen, can I just say a few words to begin with because I thought it might help if I just spoke generally about the visit, just to say how greatly I'm looking forward to my visit to China. It's of particular historic significance because I understand that I shall be the first British Prime Minister in office to visit China. I find that surprising but I'm very happy to rectify the previous omissions. You know it's not my first visit—my own personal first visit to China, I came in 1977 and I have very happy and pleasant memories of that visit when I saw a number of cities—I visited Peking of course, Shanghai. I also visited Hang-Chou and Su-Chou which are two of the loveliest cities and saw some of the most beautiful gardens I think I've ever seen and visited, I think, a silk factory and saw something of your embroidery. And I also particularly remember seeing in some of the museums some of your lovely art, the scrolls, the early painting in which I happen to take a particular interest because I have one or two chinese paintings of my own. The most important part of the visit of course for me will be the discussions that we'll have, with Premier Zhao Ziyang and of course with Mr. Deng Xiao-ping I think I say it in that order because I think that's the order in which I am seeing them. It will be a great opportunity to discuss together some of the great problems that affect the world and of course the world is a shrinking place in a way, communications make it smaller and therefore something that happens in a country that it may seem geographically is the other side of the world affects each and every one of us because we are really one world now and I'm particularly aware that China and we share similar views of some of the world's problems and similar views on the need for defence and I'm sure that we will profit greatly in talking to one another about these matters. And of course we have a number of bilateral matters to discuss between us, of trade increases, a number of defence matters also to discuss and of course we'll have the chance to talk about Hong Kong as well. And I'm sure that the talks that we will have will make a contribution to increasing the possibility, increasing the likelihood of world peace as well as improving relations between our two countries although they're already very friendly indeed. As you know, Britain has long had a school of chinese studies over here, a very very long time, and we have a natural interest in China and her people.
Now perhaps it was longer than I intended to speak, shall we go on to the particular questions that you wanted to ask? [end p1]
Journalist
What, your excellency, Prime Minister, is your view of the general situation in the world today? What do you think are the main features of this situation and what do the peace loving countries in the world most need to do in order to deal effectively with the threat of war?
Mrs. Thatcher
That's very deep question and it will take me a little time to answer. I think there are two main features of the world scene at the moment. The first is political instability and the second economic difficulties. Let us take them in order: political instability—the most obvious example of course at the moment is in the Middle East where we have seen great troubles recently and they are not of course yet finished. But that is not the full extent of the political instability. There are problems in the continent of Africa, as you know on the horn of Africa in Angola, Namibia and of course in the Western Sahara and in Libya. There are a great many political problems throughout the whole continent of Africa. You'll also know very much, as I do, that there are political problems in Latin America as well and in Central America. Indeed I'm afraid it seems as if there's scarcely a part of the world that hasn't got some kind of political trouble. Now you ask how we deal with the political trouble: our first purpose is to keep peace with freedom. Peace is much more likely to be kept if one looks to one's own defences. Wars tend to have come about not so much from the strength of countries but from the weakness of some countries in the face of the strength of others. And therefore if one wishes to keep peace with freedom the first thing one must do is to have strong defences of one's own. I repeat again they do not lead to war, they are there to deter anyone else from starting war in one's own territories. That doesn't mean that we like having more and more spent on defence, as you know we are always ready to discuss with a potential aggressor and of course in our world the main threat comes from the Soviet system and we have a very firm Western alliance against that potential threat, but we're always ready to discuss disarmament, between us, so long as we can be certain that any agreement would be honoured and that it would be open to inspection because we would have to be certain that if we agreed to reduce the level of armaments, whether at nuclear level or a conventional level, that each carried out that agreement, otherwise the safety would go because the balance would go, we would like to have the balance at a lower level of armaments and we're always willing to discuss it—but balance there must be. Now I wonder if I could talk just a little bit about the other aspect, the great economic difficulties that we are all facing and it is affecting countries throughout the world. I believe that it started with the tremendous increase in the price of oil which has gone up over ten times in eight years and that I think is one of the great causes of the world recession because we're all having to spend money on oil which would have been available to [end p2] spend on other goods and services. Now what are we doing about that? We meet regularly, the heads of government, trying to agree how to pull the world out of this recession and to get a higher and better standard of living for our people but there isn't any magic wand, you know there are only certain things one can do, one tries to spend as much as possible on capital investment to develop new industries—exactly what you're doing in your modernisation programme—new industries, the latest technology, to develop agriculture because of course increasing yield in agriculture is the thing likely to put up the standard of many developing countries faster than anything else. But they are only the old recipes—(you know it is)—one has to work harder to try to develop the resources of one's own country in a sound way and we are all trying to do that. We are concerned very much to help the developing countries, whatever our difficulties here in Britain we do have quite a big aid programme and we have been giving a lead in trying to release some of the aid resources through the international development agency, the IDA. There had been a rule that unless we all contribute our full share then none of the resources can be given to developing countries—unfortunately everyone was not contributing their full share, but we said let our money be used in any event and a number of other countries followed our lead and you were very pleased about that. Then we continue, both economically and politically, to try to solve some of those problems with which we have a special connection: for example there's one in Africa. The Namibian problem. We talk also to our American friends and to our Arab and Israeli friends about how to solve the Middle Eastern problem. The Iran/Iraq is a particularly difficult one but few people seem to be able to bring influence to bear on that. So there are many problems, there are many troubles. I think if we keep our defences sure, we constantly talk to our friends and consult with them as to how we go forward together, then I think we perhaps have … our people can feel some hope that we shall be able to overcome these problems together. That's a long reply.
Journalist
Thank you. Mrs. Thatcher, if I make the second point … the second question: how do you see the role being played by the European countries—in particular the EEC in the world affairs at present? How do you think the European countries can play a bigger role in the world? [end p3]
Mrs. Thatcher
In the European Community we do work very closely together on many issues. As you know all our trade relations with the outside world are conducted through the Community, we act together, so when we're negotiating on tariffs and such things it is the Community that acts on behalf of all ten countries. So I think one can say that the community is an area of stability, one is constantly looking in a troubled world for areas of stability. The European Community is such an area of stability, both on trade relations and we meet regularly, for example heads of government of those ten countries meet three times a year, that is a lot, so we are discussing political matters and economic matters together and how we shall go forward together, three times a year. Now contrast the stability of Europe with the instability that we're now seeing in part of the Soviet system, particularly in Poland, where there is enormous trouble and political instability and the people of Poland under military rule are deeply unhappy—it's not a strong enough word really—and deeply distressed and trying to have a larger say in their own affairs. We, when we decide how we shall approach the Polish problem, again meet together in Europe and at one stage because we were concerned that they hadn't enough food. We jointly agreed to let them have more food and we decide jointly what we shall do. There is just one point that perhaps I should make: you will be aware, in connection with our relationship with both the Soviet Union or trade with the Soviet Union, there has been some difficulty about supplying certain things to the siberian gas pipeline and that differences have arisen between some European countries and the United States about this. I want to make this point very strongly indeed, that those differences will not undermine the Western alliance. The NATO alliance, or the Western alliance which is between Europe and the United States. It is vital for the peace of the world that Europe and the United States keep that alliance strong and stay together, so the difficulties we have over the Siberian pipeline and also over some steel exports, we will try to resolve as friends but the alliance will not be undermined in any way. Now, we also in Europe co-operate on helping the developing world, we have a programme through Europe actively for helping the developing world and as well as our own help as separate countries we contribute to the European fund, so I think one may say that Europe together is a great force for stability and for peace in the world and of course Europe and the United States are the great balance to … one of the great balancing factors to the Soviet Union and that bloc of nations. [end p4]
Now have I just covered that in every aspect? There is one other thing. As well the what is called ‘state help’, you do find that business in Europe, business and companies in Europe also privately put a lot of capital in the developing countries, so the developing countries, if they want to have more money to develop their resources can get it, either from particular countries or groups of countries or from the world bank, to which we contribute, or help through the imf, to which we're all staunch contributors, or by this extra way, through banks, companies and businesses saying—we will help to develop a new industry in the developing countries and we will provide the finance for it, if we can reach agreement with the governments of other countries. So it's quite … . it's a great constructive programme. I think … can I just put it this way, foreign affairs used to be foreign, they're not so foreign now, they're all really a part of domestic affairs because everything that happens elsewhere affects us, the trade affects us—the peace of the world affects us—so foreign affairs have become much more home affairs. Would you understand what I'm trying to say?
Journalist
Yes, Prime Minister. Yes.
Mrs. Thatcher
Good. Right, shall we go on to the next journalist?
Journalist
You have … have mentioned already about the relationship between the developed and developing countries … .
Mrs. Thatcher
Oh dear, I should have saved that point for your question.
Journalist
Yes. My question is how is … . throughout the world, how to develop such co-operation, co-operation between the north and south in general and the importance nowadays for the … . to set to build a new economic system as a whole?
Mrs. Thatcher
Yes, would you be very kind and take some of the answers to the previous question and put them on to yours. I went on to what Europe does—if you would very kindly allow him to have some of my answers that would be a great help. It's how we're going to do it-? And as you know we had a big meeting at Cancun just over a year ago, twenty-two countries, to see how we could take forward the negotiations that are taking place in the United Nations which have got held up unfortunately. We ourselves wish those, what are called global negotiations, it's a strange word, to take place—that is to say to consider further how both the developed world can help the lesser developed world to our mutual benefit and, can I make this very clear?—it is to the benefit of the developed world that we help the lesser developed world to develop her trade and industry because then we all become more prosperous because greater prosperity often stems from the flow of world trade from one country to another and the more therefore that we can produce the more the flow of world trade, and therefore we are very … we are wanting to develop those global negotiations. We believe however that the World Bank itself and the International Monetary Fund are also forces for good in the developing world, because they see that the development comes in a sound way, as with the IMF, and the World Bank will finance really big projects that would never otherwise be built. For example it will build great big dams together with associated power stations. Now those can bring prosperity, increased agricultural yield, to great valleys and areas which have not had them before. So we are good contributors to the World Bank, good contributors to the IMF, good contributors, as I indicated before, to the IDA, the specialised development agency and as I mentioned before we gave the lead in saying—well, even if everyone isn't making their full contribution, please use ours, and it has already been a very great help. [end p5]
Now … and the private investment also would come in to that question. But we would like to get those global negotiations going again and I hope that we shall be able to do so. Again I stress it's in the interests of us all that we should. At the moment there are great difficulties with some of those countries because the prices that they are getting for the raw materials they are selling are low. This is because of the world recession and if they don't get reasonable prices for them they can't buy other things, so we are very keen on doing everything we can through global negotiations. Now do we go back? Do we start with you again?
Journalist
Your excellency has already given a comprehensive analysis on the world situation so now I would like to come to the question on the traditional relations. How does your excellency assess the development of co-operation between China and Britain in the political, economic and the cultural fields in the past few years and how do you look to the future of our relations?
Mrs. Thatcher
Of course there has been a long history of anglo/chinese contacts and in recent years, 1950 or … 1950 we were one of the first countries to recognise the People's Republic of China and in 1972 we exchanged ambassadors with full diplomatic relations. Trade is slowly increasing between China and my country. I think you're successful at selling your exports to us … . (laughter) very successful … and naturally we wish also to hope to sell more things to you. We are especially interested in your modernisation programme, it is very far-reaching and of course we are expert in some things in that area: we were the first to build a nuclear power station, we have, like you, big resources of coal and some of our coalmining machinery is the best in the world [words missing]
Oil resources in very difficult conditions, cold weather, cold seas, so we're expert at exploring for oil and producing it in very inclement weather. We also, as you will be aware, have been in the telecommunications business for a very long time and I know we have close contact between some of our countries and some of yours. And also railways, we were very early in transport, in the developments of railways and some of the rapid transit railways in cities but the …, and of course we have had very recent experience in testing out defence weapons, an experience we would not have sought, no Prime Minister expects to get involved in war or hostilities but when you do it is comforting to know that both your weapons systems and the training of your armed forces—both result in excellent performance. Culturally, you know, we've had so very many contacts, we've got about seven hundred of your students in our country and the British Council is very active especially in Peking—english language teaching—and the [end p6] British Council has a wonderful reputation the world over, as you know, for the excellent work it does and for its total integrity. We have always had a great interest in some of your particularly beautiful things, in your porcelain and in your paintings and of course you know we've had a school of oriental and African studies here for years and they do very well. Defence—I think Mr. Pym was the first European defence Minister to visit China. Now science and technology: we do have useful contacts between your academy of sciences and our own. Science of course has a universal aspect about it, so long as there are things that are unknown. One always tries to do more research to reach out so that the unknown becomes the known and I shall be visiting a research establishment in Shanghai. You remember—perhaps you don't—I do remember vividly when we had the marvellous Chinese exhibition here in Burlington House some years ago, people flooded in to see it so that's on the cultural side. On the trading side we have a trade council as indeed … . and a Great Britain&slash:China centre so we have all of those things and of course we also have similar views about foreign affairs, similar views about the threat we get from the Soviet Union. So I think that … . I think we … there's enormous scope for steadily increasing the contacts, the relationships. As I say we always in this country have had a great feeling for China and the Chinese people. It is a feeling that is there and a great interest in her future and that interest will grow. Thank you.
Journalist
Well. The last question today. What do you expect of your Far East trip? Before you start the journey to peking would you like to say a few words through the chinese media to the chinese readers?
Mrs. Thatcher
I expect, I think, to gain greatly from the discussions we shall have with Mr. Deng Xiao-ping and Premier Ye Jianying. This is a great opportunity to talk about the things we have been discussing, you and I, in the world together and of course it is also an opportunity to talk about Hong Kong which affects us both. I also look forward to seeing areas which I have not yet seen, I have been to some parts of Peking before, to some parts of Shanghai, but there's still much to see, and this time too we're going on a visit to Canton which I've never seen before. There's a big telecommunications project there and [two lines of corrupt text] and I want to go also to some of the countries where you have … the parts where you have the most wonderful treasures and old tombs. I shall not be able [end p7] to get to see those this time. But this time I shall be able to say—yes I have been to Canton and will see that. But I won't see also some of the things of great beauty which you have, I've never seen the Summer Palace which I think I hoped to visit the first time, and I want to see some paintings. But I want to continue what I did last time, I remember it vividly, when we went round some of the beautiful parks and gardens—in Hangzhou and Suzhou, and I did say to our Chinese hosts, please could we stop the car and could I get out and walk and talk to some of the Chinese people? And we did. We call it walkabout here, you know, and I had a number … . plenty of interpreters with me and I talked to a number of people there, said who I was, why I was visiting China and asked them about where they had come from. Some of them were on their day off and they had come from the outlying places into the city, and I also visited some houses and talked to the people there because you know you never really get a feel of the country unless you also talk to the ordinary people and I went to a great big market in Peking, an enormous market, enormous market—a closed one where they were selling everything where the produce went in—I cannot remember its name … .
Journalist
Would that be Dum Fung+ market?
Mrs. Thatcher
Yes, that sounds very much like it, but what I'm saying is that one's contacts are never complete unless you actually have the opportunity to meet and talk to some of the ordinary people, so perhaps we'll go walkabout in canton and elsewhere. And again I stress that we constantly want to develop closer relations, to know more about one another. To know that our tourism to China goes up as more and more people want to come and see. You are the largest country in the world as far as population is concerned and of course will have increasing importance in world affairs. That's not the only reason why we come, we come because of this fascination we have with Chinese matters, love of your culture, recognition of the gifts of chinese culture to the world, recognition of the fact that China is the home of many scientific inventions, the compass, the turbine, I think even dynamite and so we're very much looking forward to it and we hope to have the chance to talk to some of your fellow citizens as well as some of your political leaders. Every good wish and goodwill from Britain to the Chinese people.