PRIME MINISTER
Engagements
Q1. Mr. Archie Hamilton
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 2 February.
The Prime Minister (Mrs. Margaret Thatcher)
This morning I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in the House, I shall be having further meetings later today.
Mr. Hamilton
Will my right hon. Friend find time today to read a report from the TUC calling for a massive £8.3 billion injection of taxpayers' money into the economy? Will she confirm that she and her right hon. Friends are as likely to condone such an irresponsible and disastrous reflation of the economy as is Mr. Len Murray to call for the voluntary ending of closed shop agreements?
The Prime Minister
I agree with my hon. Friend that such an injection would be totally irresponsible, because people never say from where the money is to come. If it were to come from taxation it would impose far too high a burden, and if it were to come from borrowing it would impose interest rates that would be far too high. If it were to come from inflation, we would go right up in the inflation stakes, because inflation is a tax, although one does not need to get it through in the Finance Bill.
Mr. Foot
Does the right hon. Lady not believe that it would be wiser to study the TUC document before she tries to pronounce judgment upon it? Meantime, can she take the opportunity, as I am sure she would wish, to comment on the remarkable speech of the Leader of the House last night? Can she tell us whether that was an official statement of Government policy and, further, whether the figures on which he based the speech were before the Cabinet last week? Is that the reason why she regarded it as an “excellent Cabinet” ?
The Prime Minister
I am delighted to respond to the right hon. Gentleman. Francis PymMy right hon. Friend made an excellent speech last night, so good that I wish to quote from it.
“This Government is completely committed to a long-term economic recovery that can be sustained, and a restoration of our ability to compete with—and beat—our overseas rivals … The Conservative Party has never shrunk from such challenges in the past. We are facing up to them now.”
May I go on?
“For whatever the work ethic of the 1990s may be, it is certain it must be based on our competitiveness: on our ability to produce the right goods at the right price for the right markets. This is the only basis on which Government, managements and trade unions can realistically seek to create new employment opportunities.”
The speech is so good that I might have written it myself.
Mr. Foot
Can the right hon. Lady tell us whether she wrote the other part of the speech that she has not quoted—the part that says that there will be no early reduction in unemployment and that living standards are bound to fall? Did she write the part of the speech that led The Daily Telegraph to print the headline:
“Bleak View of Economy by Pym” ?
Does the Right hon. Lady agree with that?
The Prime Minister
Has the right hon. Gentleman been listening to what I have said—[Hon. Members: “Answer” ]—about unemployment, which was similar to what my right hon. Friend said? An increase in output [column 124]always comes first. A reduction in unemployment follows, but some time after. If the right hon. Gentleman reads the speeches of the right hon. Member for Leeds, East (Mr. Healey), he will find that a similar expression was used when we had 1.6 million unemployed. There is nothing new about it. It may be new to the right hon. Gentleman, but it is not new to anyone else.
Mr. Foot
If the right hon. Lady thinks that there was nothing new in the speech, why does she think that The Daily Telegraph gave it such prominence?
The Prime Minister
Because it was a very good speech.
Q2. Mr. Warren
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for 2 February.
The Prime Minister
I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Warren
While I applaud the Prime Minister's public statements on the problems of Poland, may I ask her to take time in her busy day to seek to collaborate with other Western leaders to impress upon the Russian leadership that, not only is it failing to respond to Western protests about its sponsorship of the destruction of freedom in Poland, but blatantly is ignoring them? Will she try to get the Russians to accept public international responsibility for their actions?
The Prime Minister
I agree with what my hon. Friend says about the Russian attitude. There is no doubt about Soviet complicity in events in Poland. I understand that NATO will be meeting tomorrow to try to give some signals to the Soviet Union on how we regard its complicity. I hope that we shall be able to agree on some matters to that effect. In the meantime, as we all know, freedom and Communism cannot exist alongside each other.
Dr. Owen
As the Leader of the House says that living standards are bound to fall, when does the Prime Minister think that they will rise?
The Prime Minister
Living standards will rise only when Britain earns that rise either by selling goods and services that people——
Dr. Owen
When?
The Prime Minister
I cannot predict precisely when that will be. It will depend on the performance of industry. Living standards fell during many years under the Labour Government, of which the right hon. Gentleman was a member. They fell in 1975 in three of the four quarters. They fell again in 1976 and fell substantially in 1977. There was a partial recovery in a pre-election boom in 1978, but that did not succeed.
Mr. Montgomery
Will my right hon. Friend find some time today to read the letter in this morning's edition of The Times from the chairman and secretary of the Social Democratic Party in South Hampshire? Will she note that these two gentleman are now disillusioned with the Social Democrats, that they will not be renewing their membership and that they now regard the Social Democratic Party as a fraud and a delusion?
The Prime Minister
I read the letter. What my hon. Friend says seems to be true, but it does not seem to be news. In the 120 Divisions since the Social Democratic [column 125]Party was formed, it is not surprising to note that on 105 occasions SDP Members have voted with the Socialists. That shows their true nature.
Dr. Summerskill
Will the Prime Minister bear in mind that shortly before the 1979 general election she visited Carpets International in my constituency, which had won two Queen's Awards for exports and which was considered to be a showpiece? It has now laid off over 500 employees, when there are already 6,000 unemployed in Halifax. Will she now pay a return visit to Carpets International to explain to the work force the benefits of a Conservative Government?
The Prime Minister
It so happens that I remember very well my visit to that most excellent carpet factory. One of the things that the management showed me was its latest machinery. Previously its machinery could weave about 1 yard of the best carpets in about one hour. I was told that the new machinery could produce about 350 yards in about an hour. I was also told that at that time, during the lifetime of the Labour Government, there would be about 250 redundancies because of the new technology.
Q3. Mr. Bob Dunn
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 2 February.
The Prime Minister
I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Dunn
Will my right hon. Friend comment on the recent decision of the Birmingham industrial tribunal that the four Walsall dinner ladies should get their jobs back? Is it not a scandal that they are not to be reinstated?
The Prime Minister
It is a scandal if they are not to be reinstated. They lost their jobs only because they refused to join a trade union. They were very good at their jobs. If they are not to be reinstated, I am happy that at least they are to be entitled to compensation under the Bill that my right hon. Friend Norman Tebbitthe Secretary of State for Employment has introduced. We shall at least be able to undo the damage that was done by the Labour Government, aided and abetted by the present Social Democratic Party.
Mr. Faulds
In view of the appalling unemployment figures, and in view of the general industrial collapse, would the right hon. Lady recall today that, with my usual prescience and percipience, I warned at one of her first Question Times after she entered Downing Street with that misguided Franciscan quotation that she would create of Britain a disaster area? Was I right or wrong?
The Prime Minister
Wrong as usual, and I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving me the chance to say so.
Mr. McQuarrie
My right hon. Friend's attention will have been drawn to the news yesterday that British Leyland is to increase the labour force at Jaguar by about 400 as a direct result of the 600 cars that were sold to the United States last month, which was a record. That was achieved against the background of a 20 per cent. recession in car sales in the United States. Does she agree that Jaguar's success is a clear indication that the efforts of British Leyland and the Government's proposals for working with British Leyland are proving successful?
The Prime Minister
Yes. I hope that the good work and the good sales will continue. If they do, that will be good for everyone.
[column 126]Mr. Joseph Dean
Will the Prime Minister take time today to return once again to the dissidents—I do not mean in Poland or Russia—on the Government Back Benches, who in increasing numbers are becoming disillusioned and in some instances diametrically opposed to her policies? For how long does she think she can retain their support? Will she continue to award knighthoods in each Honours List as a means of ensuring support for her and the Government?
The Prime Minister
For and beyond the lifetime of this Parliament.
Q4. Mr. Marlow
asked the Prime Minister whether she will list her official engagements for 2 February.
The Prime Minister
I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Marlow
Any normal commercial undertaking that had been bled dry by a destructive strike would neither come running to the Government for funds nor, alternatively, seek to bring forward destructive price increases. Will my right hon. Friend take action to ensure that the British Rail monopoly does not move in either of these directions and is forced to retrieve its loss-making position either by improvements in productivity or a combination of that and lower-than-average pay settlements, which is what would happen to anybody in the private sector?
The Prime Minister
I agree with my hon. Friend that the strike is damaging to the future of the railways and damaging to Britain. We need to have increased productivity if we are to have a successful British railway system. As my hon. Friend knows well, if there are considerable fare or freight charge increases, there will be a further loss of business and a further loss of jobs.
Mr. Christopher Price
Now that the Prime Minister has delivered her broadcast in part of “Let Poland be Poland” , will she consider making two more, one called “Let Turkey be Turkey” and the other called “Let El Salvador be El Salvador” —or is her attitude to imprisonment and torture conditioned by whether the tortureres and prison warders are members and supporters of NATO or of the Communist bloc?
The Prime Minister
I should have thought that most people, if not the hon. Gentleman, would recognise that what has happened in Poland is uniquely important to that country. Just when the Poles were attempting to get a spark of freedom, it was crushed by a military Government. With regard to El Salvador, elections are planned—[Interruption.]—for 28 March. All opposition parties, including the political wing of the armed opposition, have been invited to participate in constituent assembly elections on 28 March. It would be a great advance in Poland——
Mr. Winnick
What about the atrocities?
The Prime Minister
—if opposition parties were invited to participate in the elections——
Mr. Winnick
The right hon. Lady is a hypocrite.
The Prime Minister
Of course, the hon. Gentleman does not like it, but there will be elections in El Salvador. It would be a great advance if there were elections in Poland.