Speeches, etc.

Margaret Thatcher

House of Commons PQs

Document type: Speeches, interviews, etc.
Venue: House of Commons
Source: Hansard HC [10/161-66]
Editorial comments: 1515-30.
Importance ranking: Major
Word count: 2286
Themes: Defence (arms control), Economic policy - theory and process, Employment, Industry, Privatized & state industries, Energy, Pay, Public spending & borrowing, Taxation, Foreign policy (Central & Eastern Europe), Labour Party & socialism, Local government finance
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PRIME MINISTER

Engagements

Q1. Mr. Viggers

asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 20 October.

The Prime Minister (Mrs. Margaret Thatcher)

This morning I presided at a meeting of the Cabinet and had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others, including one with the Romanian Foreign Minister. In addition to my duties in the House I shall be having further meetings later today.

Mr. Viggers

Has my right hon. Friend had time today to observe that the Government's proposals to introduce more private enterprise and competition into the oil and gas industries have been widely welcomed? Has she noted that the proposals have been condemned by both Opposition parties? Does my right hon. Friend agree that the proposals reflect the Conservative Party's concern to help the consumer by increased competition and efficiency and that they also reflect the fact that the Opposition parties, whatever they call themselves, are still wedded to State monopoly and the other trappings of Socialism?

The Prime Minister

Yes. My right hon. Friend's proposals received a wide welcome from all who genuinely have the consumer's interests at heart. North Sea oil was brought ashore by private enterprise and private investment. It is time, we feel, that the BNOC was relieved of the constraints in the public sector, and time that industrial consumers of gas had an element of competition in choosing their source of supply.

Mr. Foot

May I first make it clear to the right hon. Lady, in regard to the Government's proposals concerning oil in the North Sea, that the Opposition will fight with every power in our being to protect British interests and that we shall restore to British control everything that she gives away?

May I also indicate that we shall take the first available opportunity to ask the House to debate and vote upon the [column 162]terrible and shameful unemployment figures published today? We shall therefore put down a motion of censure on the Government on that subject.

Will the right hon. Lady say whether the Government's medium-term financial strategy was one of the topics on the Cabinet's agenda today and, if so, will she indicate to the House and to the country how many more people would be unemployed if that strategy were carried forward?

The Prime Minister

The Cabinet meeting earlier today was one of several that usually occur at this time of year to discuss public expenditure. I am sure that the same happened in the lifetime of the previous Government. With regard to the unemployment figures, I had hoped that the right hon. Gentleman would welcome a very small reduction in the figures and that he would also welcome other good signs: the number of people on short-time working is down, the number of people on overtime is up, and manufacturing output is up. This is good and welcome news.

Mr. Foot

The Prime Minister is omitting the most serious figure of all—the increase of 56,000 in the seasonally adjusted figure, which shows that, far from the slightly better tendency of a few months ago, the situation is getting worse again. Why should the right hon. Lady conceal that from the House? She will not be able to conceal these matters from the country for very much longer.

Will the right hon. Lady now answer my question, which she avoided? Did she consider at the Cabinet today any proposed further expenditure cuts? If so, what extra unemployment will be involved in them?

The Prime Minister

With regard to the right hon. Gentleman's earlier point, he will take either the raw figures or the seasonally adjusted figures, whichever suits him best. But the actual number of unemployed is 10,000 fewer this month than last month. It is a very small amount, but it is much more welcome than would be 10,000 more. On the right hon. Gentleman's latter point, we discussed public expenditure, but other matters are left for the Budget.

Mr. Trippier

Will my right hon. Friend emphasise to the unilateral disarmers in the Labour Party the fallacy of the argument that we are faced with a choice of being Red or dead? Will she reiterate that there is a third choice, which is that through strength we can preserve peace and remain free, and that the Government's defence policies will ensure that we shall be neither Red nor dead?

The Prime Minister

Our defence policies are designed to keep the peace and to keep peace with freedom, not at the expense of freedom.

Mr. Foster

Does the Prime Minister recognise that the youth opportunities programme is on the point of collapse because of the considerable increase in youth unemployment caused by her Government? Will she give an undertaking to relaunch the programme as a one or two-year education and training programme based on work experience?

The Prime Minister

No. I do not accept that the YOP is on the verge of collapse. The programme has done excellent work and will continue to do so. It will now be joined by another programme for the employment of young people, which I announced in July and which will [column 163]start in January. It will subsidise and help employers to take on young people in their first year after leaving school for wages of £40 to £45 a week. I hope that that will get jobs for a number of young people who would otherwise be on the unemployment register.

Later——

Mr. Straw

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. At the start of Prime Minister's questions the hon. Member for Gosport (Mr. Viggers) asked a supplementary question about the Government's decision to sell off the BNOC to private enterprise. The hon. Gentleman, besides being a director of Sweetheart International (Gosport) Ltd., is a director of Premier Consolidated Oilfields Ltd. Is it in order for an hon. Member to ask such a supplementary question without declaring his own personal interest?

Mr. Speaker

Order. I thought that most hon. Members knew by now that there was no requirement to declare an interest at Question Time.

Q2. Mr. Eggar

asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 20 October.

The Prime Minister

I refer my hon. Friend to the reply I gave a few moments ago.

Mr. Eggar

Will my right hon. Friend congratulate the management and employees of the National Freight Company, many of whom are union members, on their bold decision to go ahead with the purchase of shares in that company? Will she confirm that further privatisation remains the Government's highest priority, and will she reconsider the decision not to sell private equity in the British Gas Corporation?

The Prime Minister

With regard to my hon. Friend's final point, I hope that we can discuss that matter when we consider the legislative programme for the next Session. If we get the measures for privatisation and de-monopoly through the House they will be a big further step in taking monopoly out of British industry, serving the consumer and securing that more shares are put in private hands. I gladly join my hon. Friend in congratulating everyone, including my right hon. Friend Norman Fowlerthe Secretary of State for Social Services, who was formerly Secretary of State for Transport, on the privatisation of the National Freight Company. It is an imaginative scheme which reflects confidence in the future of the company, particularly by its work force.

Mr. David Steel

Following the new Secretary of State for Employment's constructive advice to the unemployed that they might get on their bikes, will the Prime Minister enlarge on that advice and suggest where they might cycle to?

The Prime Minister

I hardly think that the right hon. Gentleman's question does credit to his party or even to himself. I hope that he, too, will welcome the slight reduction in the numbers who are unemployed and that he will see from the Department of Employment figures that about 253,000 people came off the register last month.

Mr. Blackburn

As unemployment reaches 2 million in West Germany, does my right hon. Friend agree that no country is immune from the world recession, but that increased demand on basic industries such as steel, chemicals and sections of the engineering industry, together with the current unemployment figures, are reasons for cautious optimism?

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The Prime Minister

I agree with my hon. Friend. The world recession is affecting unemployment levels in West Germany, France, Belgium, Holland, Italy, the United States and most other Western industrialised economies. One or two countries have a higher percentage than Britain, but I am the first to admit that we have more serious problems, because of overmanning and restrictive practices, which no Government have dealt with over the years, and because our pay has been way ahead of productivity. Nations that have not had overmanning have had better productivity, have not had pay increases in advance of productivity and have done better than us on jobs.

Q3. Mr. Canavan

asked the Prime Minister what are her official engagements for Tuesday 20 October.

The Prime Minister

I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply I gave some moments ago.

Mr. Canavan

Bearing in mind the blatant lies that we were told in the last general election campaign about how a Tory Government would reduce the dole queues, and bearing in mind also the Government's latest obsession about the holding of referendums, what answer does the Prime Minister think that she would get if she went to the people and asked them whether they would like to sack the Prime Minister, who has betrayed 3 million unemployed people in this country?

The Prime Minister

As I do not propose to do that, the point does not arise.

Sir John Biggs-Davison

When my right hon. Friend saw the Romanian Foreign Minister this morning did she tell him that, despite our great political differences with Romania, we admire the stand that his country has made for national sovereignty in Eastern Europe?

The Prime Minister

I did not tell him that, but I believe that he knows full well that that is our view.

Mr. Stan Thorne

Will the Prime Minister arrange to include in next month's unemployment figures the number of women who are unemployed, but are not registered, the number involved in the youth opportunities programme and the number of workers on short time, because that will produce a figure nearer 4 million than 3 million?

The Prime Minister

I do not think that there is ever a complete breakdown in each monthly set of figures. A sample survey from time to time gives the number of people between 60 and 65 who are unemployed. I recollect that last time they totalled about 9 per cent. of the unemployment figure. The survey also gives the numbers of young people and married women who are unemployed. But that is not, and could not be, done each time. With regard to those on the YOP, there is always a sheet at the back of the press release that gives the numbers of those involved in special employment and training measures. At the moment there are 270,000 on the youth opportunities programme.

Mr. Eldon Griffiths

Will my right hon. Friend take time today to study a document which has, no doubt, fallen through the letterboxes of her fellow residents in Flood Street and the letterboxes of many hon. Members, namely, the new rates bill from the GLC? Can she explain why those of us who live in London, at least part of the time, should subsidise transport for many millions of foreign [column 165]visitors on the London tubes, and further say what steps the Government propose to take to stop this lunatic driving industry out of London?

The Prime Minister

Like most other people in London, I have to pay the supplementary rate and in Chelsea it tends to be rather high. Of course, the supplementary rate bills that we are receiving show what Socialism would be like in practice. It pushes up taxes to intolerable levels. I agree with what my hon. Friend said about everyone paying for subsidised transport, and I also agree that the supplementary rates and the high rates of Socialism will rob London people of jobs. That, too, is the result of Socialist policies.

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Mr. Foot

How does the right hon. Lady dare to reprimand anyone for raising taxes when she has raised taxes for the vast majority of people to a level that is higher than ever before in history?

The Prime Minister

Not higher than ever before in history. But in view of what the right hon. Gentleman said I look forward to his vigorous support on reductions in public spending, so that we can get taxation down.

Mr. Brotherton

Will my right hon. Friend find time to visit Scotland, there to discuss with her right hon. and noble Friend Lord Home of the Hirsel the definitive version of the behaviour of ex-Prime Ministers and Leaders of the Opposition in retirement?

The Prime Minister

I cannot visit Scotland this week. I was there a few weeks ago, and before going again I have to go to Mexico.