PRIME MINISTER
Engagements
Q1. Mr. Moate
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for 21 May.
The Prime Minister (Mrs. Margaret Thatcher)
This morning I presided at a meeting of the Cabinet and had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in this House I shall be having further meetings later today, including one with the Kenyan Foreign Minister.
Mr. Moate
Has my right hon. Friend had time today to study the report that the treasurer of the Labour Party plans to apply strict cash limits, to impose a tough pay policy on its employees, to privatise Labour Weekly and to increase subscriptions to the old and sick by 300 per cent.? Now that the Labour Party has seen the economic facts of life, may we take it that the official Opposition will support the Government's economic strategy?
The Prime Minister
If I know anything about the official Opposition, they will find a way for the Shadow Cabinet to move two different amendments.
Mr. Foot
Let us move aside from those trivial questions. The right hon. Lady treated them with proper contempt—almost as if they were Under-Secretaries of State for the Royal Navy the way she cast them aside. May I ask her a serious question about a serious matter? At the Cabinet meeting today, did she have the opportunity to look afresh at the appalling unemployment figures? Did she have before her any report from the Secretary of State for Employment along the lines of the evidence that he submitted to the Select Committee about a much higher figure than the Government have so far mentioned as being possible, indeed even probable? Will she now reconsider the reply that she gave a day or two ago to a request from the representatives of the People's March for Jobs? Will not she have the grace, courtesy and courage to meet them and discuss the issues with them?
The Prime Minister
I read what my right hon. Friend James Priorthe Secretary of State for Employment was reported to have said before one of the Select Committees. He is worried, as I am, about the number of school leavers who will come on to the employment market. This year as a whole about 700,000 school leavers will be looking for jobs or some form of youth opportunities.
My right hon. Friend wishes, as I do, to try to secure a scheme similar to that in Germany under which every 16-year-old school leaver either has a job, further education or training. We are trying to achieve that, but I am afraid that it will take some time. My right hon. Friend is working very hard on that matter—[Interruption.] It will not make matters worse. It will make the unemployment figures better. It will give school leavers training and jobs. I am sorry that the Opposition do not appear to like the scheme. It is an excellent scheme.
With regard to the march from Liverpool, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Employment has agreed that he will meet representatives of that march on 1 June.
Mr. Foot
I ask the right hon. Lady once again: will not she meet the representatives with the Secretary of State for Employment or any other Ministers responsible? Will not she consider that? What she has given them so far is [column 415]a pretty mean and miserable reply. These are people who are voicing not merely their own opinions but the opinions of growing millions of people throughout the country who are protesting against the outrage of mass unemployment. Apparently she agrees with the figure mentioned by her right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Employment—namely, 3 million. That is the first time that that has been mentioned officially by a Government spokesman. Will she define exactly the precise circumstances in which her Government are contemplating an increase in unemployment to 3 million?
The Prime Minister
I did not confirm that as a forecast and neither did my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Employment. Last year, there were about 700,000 school leavers. There will be another high number this year and there will be another high number next year. We are doing our best to try to provide work opportunities and training for these young people. We shall continue to do our best. I should have thought that the right hon. Gentleman would accept it in that spirit. After all, he faced very similar problems of increases in the unemployment figures. With regard to the offer of my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Employment to meet the march, I do not regard that offer as mean and miserable.
Sir Timothy Kitson
During the course of the day, will my right hon. Friend give some thought to the anxieties and sufferings of many families due to the growth of religious sects, the Moonies especially——
Mr. Cryer
The most dangerous sect in this country is the Tory Party.
Sir Timothy Kitson
Will my right hon. Friend consider whether a Royal Commission or some form of inquiry should be set up to investigate their entry, their activities, their fund-raising methods and their charitable status in the United Kingdom?
The Prime Minister
I note that my hon. Friend is obviously very concerned about the activities of the Moonies, as indeed are many of us. He will be happy to know that the Charity Commissioners are reconsidering charitable status. Sir Michael HaversThe Attorney-General has also considered what action might be appropriate to take in relation to trusts. My right hon. Friend Patrick Jenkinthe Secretary of State for Social Services has asked his officials to examine the evidence as presented, as far as it relates to mental health and family life. These are three very positive things that are already taking place. I shall, of course, consider my right hon. Friend's suggestion with regard to the other matter.
Q2. Mr. Dubs
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her public engagements for 21 May.
The Prime Minister
I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some time ago.
Mr. Dubs
Will the Prime Minister confirm today's reports that the Cabinet intends to axe £900 million from local authority spending because of alleged over-spending by certain local authorities? Is the right hon. Lady aware that this decision will cause great damage to local authority services, be they education, housing or employment? Will she explain why the announcement of this decision has been delayed until after the local authority elections?
[column 416]The Prime Minister
If I were asked to confirm or deny every report of what Cabinet is supposed or not supposed to have done, I would be giving a great deal of misinformation. My right hon. Friend Michael Heseltinethe Secretary of State for the Environment will give his decision when he has made it. One of the real problems is over-spending by local authorities, which bears heavily on both the taxpayer and the ratepayer.
Mr. Grimond
Will the Prime Minister advise those of us who have been saying to civil servants that they should not go on strike and should accept 7 per cent. now that the Ministers negotiating with them, and Members of Parliament, are to get an 18 per cent. increase? Will the Government make it clear that they do not consider themselves bound by previous arrangements about pay? Does this mean that they will examine these matters again?
The Prime Minister
I do not very often find the right hon. Gentleman giving what I consider to be a very unfair account of increases for hon. Members and Ministers. I hope that he will accept that civil servants had their last staged increase, the third stage, last year. Hon. Members and Ministers did not have their last staged increase, which Edward Boyle accepted that they should have, two years ago. They have had to wait two years for it. The last stage comes into operation this year. I think that it would have been grievously unfair if hon. Members and Ministers, having forgone that increase for two years, were now to be criticised for taking it, and therefore for adding what other people are getting—6 per cent.—which is less than that which has been offered as an increase to the civil servants.
Mr. Patrick McNair-Wilson
As 30 per cent. of our imports are paid for in dollars, will my right hon. Friend consider the effects that high American interest rates are now having on the value of sterling? Will she assure the House that, in our determination to fight the battle against inflation, she will take whatever action is required to protect our currency?
The Prime Minister
I think that American interest rates are probably having an effect on the value of the dollar in relation to the value of several European currencies. At the same time, I think that if the United States were to go in for a policy of inflation that, too, could be important and could have a devastating effect on world currencies. I do not think that we can argue with them about the measures that they should take to protect their currency. I think that it would be most unwise to do so.
Mr. Leighton
If the Prime Minister wants to increase trade, will she withdraw the Employment and Training Bill, the purpose of which is to destroy the training boards?
The Prime Minister
No. What we are trying to do is to find very many more training places for young people who leave school, and we are already looking at the facilities that the education service offers.
European Passport
Q3. Mr. Marlow
asked the Prime Minister whether she will reconsider the decision to introduce a European passport.
[column 417]The Prime Minister
No, Sir. As my right hon. Friend the Lord Privy Seal pointed out on 8 April, the proposal is not for a European passport but for a British passport in a European Community common format.
Mr. Marlow
Can I say to my right hon. Friend——
Mrs. Fenner
No.
Mr. Marlow
Can I ask my right hon. Friend——
Mrs. Fenner
That is better.
Mr. Marlow
—and put a point of view and ask for her response to it——
Mrs. Fenner
No.
Mr. Marlow
If we have a burgundy coloured passport——
Mrs. Fenner
Claret.
Mr. Marlow
—with the European Community stamp, whatever anybody says it will be looked upon, not as a British passport, but as a European passport. However far in the future it may be, it will be looked upon by many people as a threat. It will bring joy to very few and offence to a great many people. Can my right hon. Friend put many hearts at rest by saying that she will reconsider her decision and stop the introduction of this European passport?
The Prime Minister
The common format is in maroon. The cover bears the Royal Coat of Arms, which, of course, has on the bottom on it, in Latin:
“Evil be to him who evil thinks” .
It is headed:
“United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland” .
In very small letters on the top it has “European Community” . One needs a magnifying glass to see it. Immediately inside it has the usual rubric, which states:
“Her Britannic Majesty's Principal Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs Requests and requires in the Name of Her Majesty all those whom it may concern to allow the bearer to pass freely without let or hindrance, and to afford the bearer such assistance and protection as may be necessary.”
Mr. Greville Janner
Rather than worrying about the colour of passports, would it not be better to worry about whether people are free to pass from place to place? On this, the sixtieth birthday of Professor Sakharov, will the right hon. Lady deplore on behalf of all of us his lack of freedom to move out of Gorky and the Soviet Union?
The Prime Minister
I gladly join the hon. and learned Gentleman in doing so. I deplore the way in which the Helsinki Accords have not been honoured by the Soviet Union, which signed them.
Engagements
Q4. Mr. Needham
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 21 May.
The Prime Minister
I refer my hon. Friend to the reply which I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Needham
Is my right hon. Friend aware that the catering services of British Rail are currently running losses of £8 million a year? Does not she accept that those services are always expensive and invariably appalling, in stations and trains? Does not she agree that it is high time that those services were turned over to private industry, to improve the standards and to make sure that they make money?
[column 418]The Prime Minister
It is true that the catering services on stations and on trains are losing substantial sums of money. I think that it is about £6½ million. I believe that British Rail is looking at privatising some services. It would be much better value for money if that were done.
Mr. Barry Jones
Does the Prime Minister know that the male unemployment rate in the town of Flint now approaches a disturbing 38 per cent.? Why are the Government vacillating on whether to give the go-ahead to the coal liquefaction plant in North-East Wales? Would not the go-ahead help technology in Britain and help to tackle rising unemployment in North Wales?
The Prime Minister
We must consider those plans along with other demands for capital spending. As the hon. Gentleman knows, we have tried to help in many ways, with finance to his area to try to create new jobs. We have done so through advance factories and the area is also a special development area.
Sir Anthony Kershaw
Has my right hon. Friend noticed that after the withdrawal of the grant to Covent Garden by the GLC it is now threatening to withdraw grants to the Royal Opera and the Festival Ballet? Does not that show the intellectual and moral bankruptcy of the new government of London? Is not the hon. Member for Warley, East (Mr. Faulds) right in what he says about the GLC?
The Prime Minister
Substantial grants have been given to Covent Garden and to the ballet by the Arts Council and hitherto by the Greater London Council. Many of us believe that it is important that this country should continue to have one of the best opera houses in the world and some of the best ballet facilities in the world. They add to and enhance the reputation of this country as a great centre for the arts and opera.
Mr. Speaker
Business Questions, Mr. Foot——
Mr. Faulds
rose——
Mr. Speaker
Order. I believe that I heard the hon. Member stammer. With the permission of the Leader of the Opposition, as it is the last day for questions—but not as a precedent, however much the hon. Gentleman stammers in future—I shall call the hon. Member.
Mr. Faulds
Stammering is not my usual mode of speech. I shall deal with those other matters in my own time when I feel so inclined. Will the right hon. Lady reconsider her earlier misguided obstinacy? When the people's march reaches London, made up—[Interruption.]
Mr. Speaker
Order. Like everyone else, I was misled, but I called the hon. Member. He must have his question and then we can move on.
Mr. Faulds
When the people's march, made up of people of most political persuasions and of every faith, reaches London on Sunday 31 May, would it not be more advisable for the right hon. Lady to forgo her Sunday roast and go out to meet them, because she is directly responsible for their plight and for the many millions of unemployed whom they represent?
The Prime Minister
If you were misled, Mr. Speaker, your faith is greater than mine. The answer to the hon. Gentleman is “No, Sir” .