PRIME MINISTER
(ENGAGEMENTS)
Q1. Mr. Newens
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for 8 July.
The Prime Minister (Mrs. Margaret Thatcher)
This morning I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others, including one with Dr. Albrecht, the Minister President of Lower Saxony. In addition to my duties in the House, I shall be having further meetings later today.
Mr. Newens
When will the Prime Minister recognise that the massive increase in unemployment, the dumping of cheap exports in this country, high interest rates, an overvalued pound and the consequent irreparable damage being done to British industry constitute an utter condemnation of the obsolete monetarist policies that she is pursuing? Is there any point along the road to disaster at which she will turn aside from those misguided policies?
The Prime Minister
With regard to the dumping of goods, we try to take action as quickly as possible through the European Commission. With regard to interest rates, the money supply figures permitted a slight reduction in interest rates, which was a move in the right direction. With [column 231]regard to the unemployment figures, I believe that it is generally accepted that the top priority must be to flight inflation. Only when that battle is won will there be a firm enough base on which to expand manufacturing industry. With regard to the hon. Gentleman's strictures on manufacturing industry, I must tell him that during the lifetime of the previous Government the output of manufacturing industry fell.
Mr. Cyril D. Townsend
Will my right hon. Friend confirm that the Government will remain steadfast to the communiqué issued in Venice on the Middle East, and will remain opposed to any attempt by Israel to alter unilaterally the status of Jerusalem?
The Prime Minister
That matter was dealt with in the communiqué issued from Venice. The communiqué is being put into effect by contacts being made with the many parties involved in the Middle East problem.
Mr. Jay
Does the Prime Minister feel that the Government's incentive Budget of a year ago has stimulated a great industrial revival?
The Prime Minister
There are many firms that are world beaters and doing extremely well, and I doubt whether they would be doing as well but for that incentive Budget. Many people who would otherwise have remained overseas have come home to start up new businesses.
Mr. Shersby
Does my right hon. Friend agree that a wage claim of 35 per cent. from the miners in the present economic circumstances is unrealistic? Does she further agree that the National Coal Board and the National Union of Mine-workers should receive every encouragement from hon. Members to reach a more moderate settlement?
The Prime Minister
This is the season of trade union conferences. Parliament gets accustomed to a number of high claims being made. It is not so much the claims as the settlements with which I am concerned, as is everyone who is concerned with the cost and price of coal this year and the price of electricity. What the miners decide will determine the price of electricity next year.
[column 232]Q2. Mr. Barry Jones
asked the Prime Minister what are her official engagements for 8 July.
The Prime Minister
I refer the hon. Member to the reply which I gave a few moments ago.
Mr. Jones
Is the right hon. Lady yet able to say how she will find thousands of new jobs for redundant steel workers? Can she say what intervention she will make to save the tottering textile industry? Is she not experiencing just a tremor of panic as the British manufacturing base collapses because of her outrageous policies?
The Prime Minister
It is ridiculous to say that the British manufacturing base is collapsing. With regard to the problems of steel, the British taxpayer has poured about £5,000 million into the steel industry over the last five years. A number of closures have to be made, and Shotton was one of them. About £15 million was put into the Shotton area to try to mitigate the effects of some of the redundancies and to start new jobs.
With regard to textiles, I understand that the hon. Gentleman has an Adjournment debate tomorrow evening. There are successes a little further south of his constituency, where British Celanese is continuing with a £2 million investment.
Mr. Forman
In view of the fondness of the Opposition and certain sections of the press for the bad news all the time, will my right hon. Friend take time today to draw up a list of all those aspects of the economy in which there are signs of an improvement in productivity? Will she consider the possibility of a Queen's Award for increased productivity?
The Prime Minister
I have not considered a Queen's Award for improvement in productivity, but my hon. Friend is right. There are areas where there have been great improvements in productivity——
Mr. Concannon
The miners.
The Prime Minister
The miners, I agree, have made improvements in productivity. The average miner's wage at the coalface is £147 a week. They have made improvements in productivity. I am [column 233]sure that my hon. Friend the Member for Carshalton (Mr. Forman) will be delighted to receive confirmation from the Opposition Benches of what he said.
Mr. James Callaghan
When the right hon. Lady refers to closures in the steel industry that have to be made—I use her words—is she referring to the prospect of either Port Talbot or Llanwern steelworks being closed, because that is the greatest fear afflicting South Wales at present? If so, what would be the consequential impact on the coal mines of South Wales? Would we then be ready to close coal mines that are capable of producing coal in an efficient way because there is not the demand from the steel industry? If not, what is the Government's policy? How will the right hon. Lady protect the people of South Wales and elsewhere from the ravages of Government policy?
The Prime Minister
With regard to the proposed steel closures, the new chairman who has just gone into the British Steel Corporation is making a full and up-to-date assessment of the position of British Steel and will report to my right hon. Friend Sir Keith Josephthe Secretary of State when he has had time to make that assessment.
The situation with regard to the coal mines in South Wales is a matter for the National Coal Board. There are regular meetings, as the right hon. Gentleman knows better than I do, to discuss the future of coal mines in that area. It is still possible for coal to be landed in this country from Australia and the United States at a lower price per ton than it can be produced in some of our coal mines. That is sometimes a factor that puts up the price of steel.
Mr. Callaghan
Is the right hon. Lady aware—she must be—of the controversy over the subsidising of coal production in other countries compared with the subsidy here? Her Government propose to taper the subsidy on operating costs so that it is wiped out in two or three years' time. I ask her, in the interests of this country in 20 years' time, whether she is prepared to see coal mines closed, in the knowledge that the coal that could be produced will be for ever forgone and that succeeding generations will never be able to mine it?
The Prime Minister
The external finance limit of the National Coal Board [column 234]in the current year is about £834 million. That is a considerable subsidy by the British taxpayer to coal mines. There is also a substantial subsidy to steel. There are high subsidies to coal in other countries. The trouble is that we provide subsidies for far too many industries—coal, steel, British Leyland, shipbuilding and, last year, electricity. It is one thing after another. The right hon. Gentleman must remember that some industries have to produce the subsidies that others receive.
Mr. Callaghan
Does the right hon. Lady realise that those subsidies were made at a time when growth in manufacturing and other industries of this country was increasing at the rate of 3 per cent., when inflation was below 10 per cent., and when we had a decent incomes policy? When will she abandon her present policy, so that we can get back to that situation again?
The Prime Minister
During the stewardship of the previous Labour Government average earnings increased by 113 per cent., retail prices by 106 per cent., and manufacturing output fell by 2 per cent.
Q3. Mr. Adley
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for 8 July.
The Prime Minister
I refer my hon. Friend to the reply which I gave earlier.
Mr. Adley
Does my right hon. Friend envisage any circumstances in which there will need to be an early amendment of the Act of Settlement 1701?
The Prime Minister
The Act of Settlement remains in force and the Government have no plans to change it.
Mr. Joel Barnett
Will the Prime Minister say whether her recent statements mean that she now has an incomes policy for the public sector, and free collective bargaining for the private sector?
The Prime Minister
I have what most employers have had ever since employers began—a policy for the pay that one pays to one's employees.
Mr. Onslow
Against the background of the welcome rejection of the recommendations of the Boyle report, will my right hon. Friend find time to comment today on the statement of the president [column 235]of the Nottinghamshire miners that the Government are out to create an unequal society, so why should the miners not get what they can?
The Prime Minister
I should think that many miners are pleased with the pay that they are earning, which is £147 a week for coalface workers. I think that that is evidenced by the fact that, according to reports, there is now a queue of young people wanting to become miners.
Dr. Edmund Marshall
To return to the Act of Settlement and the current speculation about whom the Prince of Wales may or may not marry, is not the most important consideration the fact that he should be able to lead his own life and find his own way to happiness, like everyone else?
The Prime Minister
I have already replied that the Act of Settlement remains in force and that the Government have no plans to change it. There is nothing that I can usefully add.
IRAN
(AMERICAN HOSTAGES)
Q4. Mr. Latham
asked the Prime Minister what progress is being made by the Western Allies in bringing about the release of the American hostages in Iran.
The Prime Minister
The political and economic measures taken by the Nine and other Western countries are designed to show the Iranian authorities that there are real penalties for continuing to hold the hostages. We intend to keep up the pressure.
Mr. Latham
Is my right hon. Friend aware that we have now reached day 248 of the illegal seizure of these diplomats? There seems to be some danger that the world is beginning to forget about them. Is it not time for a new effort to be made, either by the West or by the United Nations, to send a Third World or Islamic deputation to Iran to try to bring the matter to a speedy end?
[column 236]The Prime Minister
We are all aware of the length of time that the American hostages have been held in Iran. There are signs that the sanctions to which I referred are having some effect. At least, President Bani-Sadr indicated that in an interview with one of the news agencies. We keep in close touch with our American friends and stand willing to help in any diplomatic initiative that they might wish us to undertake.
Mr. Dalyell
Will the Prime Minister search her memory and tell the House when she first heard of the American military expedition to the Iranian desert? Was, it like the rest of us, from the BBC at 7.20 on the morning of Friday 25 April?
The Prime Minister
I have already replied to that question a number of times. We were informed of the possibility of such an attack. We would never expect to be informed of the precise nature of such an attack.