PRIME MINISTER
(Engagements)
Q2. Mr. O'Neill
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for 3 April.
The Prime Minister (Mrs. Margaret Thatcher)
In addition to my duties in this House, I shall be having meetings with ministerial colleagues and others.
Mr. O'Neill
Will the Prime Minister take time today to consider a report in today's press to the effect that manufacturing output will fall by 4½ per cent. and that unemployment is likely to rise to 2½ million? Is it not disgraceful that that announcement was not made last week, at the time of the Budget Statement? Could it be that the right hon. Lady and her colleague the Chancellor of the Exchequer did not have that information? If they did not know about it, will they find time during the recess to produce another Budget that will take that information into consideration?
The Prime Minister
If the hon. Member reads the Red Book, he will find the official Government forecast. I know of many forecasts, and some of them are very gloomy. We had some extremely gloomy forecasts for the end of last year, but, in the outturn, the standard of living rose by about 6 per cent.
Mr. Bruce-Gardyne
Will my right hon. Friend find time today to refute reports in the press this morning to the effect that the consequence of the tax agreed in Brussels on food imports into Britain [column 642]will be to increase the cost of our contribution to the Community budget? If that were the case, would it not undermine our position when negotiating with the Community?
The Prime Minister
As my hon. Friend knows, we are trying to secure substantial reductions in our contribution to the Community. I am aware of some of the complicated factors about MCAs. They are designed to see that our producers get a fair deal in competition with others. I have a brief on this subject that consists of two whole pages of foolscap. I assure my hon. Friend that it is highly complicated and that he would prefer me not to read it out.
Mr. Foot
Although it is highly complicated, does not the right hon. Lady think that it is highly important as well, since the report states that under these arrangements we are to have a tax on food coming into this country? When will she report to the House? Does she regard this as a further example of her success in EEC diplomacy?
The Prime Minister
I do not think that the report is quite right. As the right hon. Gentleman knows, my right hon. Friend Peter Walkerthe Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food wants the system to apply in such a way that it will not subject British producers to unfair competition. We are both very concerned about prices to the housewife. However, it would be far better if the right hon. Gentleman were to ask for the full details from my right hon. Friend. I can spend the whole of Question Time on this subject, but I am not sure that it would be illuminations either to the right hon. Gentleman or to me.
Mr. Foot
Will the right hon. Lady confirm, as her right hon. Friend and the report have indicated, that it is not only a question of the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, but that it concerns the consequences for Britain's contribution to the budget as a whole? Is it not she who is answerable to the House on all those issues?
The Prime Minister
Of course I am concerned about the consequences for the British contribution to the Community as a whole. With that in mind, we look at every change proposed in the CAP in order to ensure that it is not adverse [column 643]to Britain's interests. Some of the proposed changes are adverse to our interests. That is why we could not possibly agree to them. There is no doubt about that.
Mr. Cyril D. Townsend
Does my right hon. Friend realise that the style and content of the Government's White Paper on defence were greatly appreciated by all Conservative Members, and no doubt by those in the Armed Forces? Does she agree that the Government still need to make a massive effort to put over to the people of Britain, particularly the young, the need for NATO to update its nuclear weapons and to maintain defence expenditure at that level?
The Prime Minister
I am grateful to my hon. Friend, I agree that the level of defence expenditure must be related to the level of the force that we have to deter. That must happen at all levels, whether nuclear, theatre nuclear or conventional. A decision has not yet been made about the updating of nuclear weapons. Francis PymMy right hon. Friend will report to the House when it has.
Mr. Soley
Will the Prime Minister take time today to consider arranging meetings between herself and the Prime Minister of the Irish Republic on a regular basis, so that matters of concern to both countries can be discussed in a systematic way?
The Prime Minister
We meet at the European summits, and I shall be meeting the Prime Minister of the Irish Republic at the next European summit towards the end of April. I believe that it is preferable for more regular meetings to be held on security matters between my right hon. Friend Humphrey Atkinsthe Secretary of State for Northern Ireland and his opposite number in the Irish Republic.
Mr. Hill
Is my right hon. Friend aware that the Militant Tendency movement has completely taken over the Southampton Labour Party, and that the citizens of Southampton are alarmed that after the next local election there may be for the first time in living memory a Communist-controlled local authority?
The Prime Minister
I trust that my hon. Friend will be sufficiently active in Southampton in our cause to see that that does not happen.
[column 644]Afghanistan
Q3. Mr. Dalyell
asked the Prime Minister whether, in framing policy in relation to Afghanistan, Her Majesty's Government took into account the torture and massacre of a significant number of Russian technical advisers in Herat on and about 5 April 1979.
The Prime Minister
I can neither confirm nor deny the report about the treatment of Russian technical advisers in Herat last year. Even if the report is true, it would not have justified the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan eight months later and the subsequent killing of large numbers of Afghan men, women and children.
Mr. Dalyell
Will the Prime Minister accept the ghoulish truth, of which I gave her office details 11 days ago, that about a year ago to the day 30 Russian technical advisers were forced to eat their own testicles, they were then skinned alive and their heads were paraded through Herat by Afghan factions? Does the right hon. Lady agree that it is not surprising that Mother Russia will not sit by and see factional crises of militant irredentist Islam on her Central Asian borders—[Hon. Members: “Reading.” ]
Yes, I am reading, because I am asking a careful and precise question.
Mr. Speaker
Order. The hon. Gentleman knows that it is out of order to read questions. As he has confessed before the House to reading, I have no alternative but to ask him to try to remember that.
Mr. Dalyell
Do not the British know better than most that once an army is sucked into factional tribal strife it is much more difficult to get that army out?
The Prime Minister
The hon. Gentleman asked me if I could confirm those reports. I can only tell him that I can neither confirm nor deny them.
The hon Gentleman knows that I am the first to condemn all violence, by whomsoever it is perpetrated. However, the hon. Gentleman knows that the answer to violence is not for one nation to march into another's territory and perpetrate further acts of violence. I hope that he will agree that that can never be [column 645]justified and will join almost all hon. Members in asking the Russians to withdraw their troops from Afghanistan.
Mr. Tapsell
Has my right hon. Friend seen the reports that many hundreds of thousands of Afghans have been murdered by the forces of the Soviet Union since Afghanistan was invaded? Will she accept that my information is that every Afghan to whom I talked during my last visit to Kabul 18 months ago, from Nur Mohammed Tarakki downwards, has been killed? As these massacres are continuing, could a new international initiative be taken to persuade the United Nations to impose universal economic sanctions against the USSR?
The Prime Minister
I believe that a large number of atrocities are being and have been committed. My hon. Friend and I will condemn them with all the force and power at our command, and also condemn the Russian invasion of Afghanistan.
As my hon. Friend knows, the President of the United States suggested that certain measures should be taken against Russia, including sanctions on technological exports and the export of wheat. We do not yet have universal acceptance of those sanctions. We are therefore trying to co-operate with our European partners and our American friends. My right hon and noble friend Lord Carringtonthe Foreign Secretary made a most constructive suggestion to help to get troops out of Afghanistan. He suggested that Afghanistan could be a neutral country, and therefore its security would be guaranteed. That should enable the Russians to take their troops out of Afghanistan if they wished to.
Mr. James Lamond
With regard to that proposal by the Foreign Secretary, who does the right hon. Lady believe would guarantee the neutrality of Afghanistan? Have the Government had the courtesy to approach the Government of Afghanistan on the matter?
The Prime Minister
There have been talks between Powers, but not specifically between ourselves and the Government of Afghanistan. The hon. Gentleman is less than welcoming to an initiative that was genuinely meant to try to defuse the situation, to the great advantage of the people of Afghanistan and many of the surrounding countries.
[column 646]Mr. Biggs-Davison
Is not the way to end all atrocities in Afghanistan for the Soviet Union to end its occupation?
Mr. Dalyell
Like Northern Ireland.
Mr. Biggs-Davison
In view of the ominous statements from Kabul about the validity of the Durand line, will Her Majesty's Government use their influence, which they still have on the Sub-continent, to try to improve Indo-Pakistan co-operation for the safety of the Sub-continent?
The Prime Minister
The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan was the invasion by a foreign Power of an independent country, which bears no relation whatever to our troops being in Northern Ireland. Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom.
We shall do all that we can to secure the improvement of relations between India and Pakistan. I agree with my hon. Friend that they are vital to future peace in that area.
PRIME MINISTER
(Engagements)
4. Mr. McKelvey
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 3 April.
The Prime Minister
I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave earlier.
Mr. McKelvey
Will the Prime Minister take time today to consider the plight of our carpet industry? Is there any possibility of an early settlement with the EEC regarding import quotas for tufted carpets? Will the right hon. Lady confer with the Secretary of State for Industry with a view to extending the reimbursement period for those on the temporary short-term compensation scheme within the carpet industry in particular, and in industry generally?
The Prime Minister
As the hon. Gentleman knows, my right hon. Friend John Nottthe Secretary of State for Trade applied for quotas on the tufted carpet industry because of the level of imports. The Community felt that the level of imports was not sufficiently high to warrant a quota. My right hon. Friend and the Community are monitoring the quantity of imports that come in and will not hesitate to take action should it become too high.
[column 647]Mr. Thornton
In view of the news of yet another factory closure in Liverpool which has nothing to do with the normal reasons for such closures, will my right hon. Friend press the Ministers concerned to make as much speed as possible with the enterprise zone, which will give the people in the area a much-needed shot in the arm?
The Prime Minister
I am grateful to my hon. Friend. The enterprise zone scheme is extremely interesting, and will bring a lot of hope to people in areas where there has been precious little. The problem will be to limit enterprise zones, because I believe that we shall have a flood of applications. We shall press ahead as fast as we can, and I hope that the experiment will be thoroughly successful.
Dr. Owen
Will the Prime Minister indicate to the House the consequences of the proposed or possible cancellation of the two AGRs at Heysham and Torness for the power generating industry? Will she give a further assurance that no decision will be taken and announced during the recess?
The Prime Minister
We have not yet decided. As the right hon. Gentleman knows, we are looking once again at the nuclear programme in view of the fact [column 648]that the consumption of electricity is very much less than had been anticipated. The particular factor to which he refers namely, the effect upon the nuclear power industry, is one that will be taken into account when deciding. I assure him that at the moment no decision has been taken.
Mr. McCrindle
Will the Prime Minister confirm that in the event of a national railway strike the attitude of the Government will be as non-interventionist as it was during the 13 weeks of the steel strike? Will she further confirm that any settlement of the railway dispute should include a high level of productivity, which many of us who use the services of British Rail feel there is ample opportunity to achieve?
The Prime Minister
I am glad to respond to my hon. Friend. The cash limit for British Rail is very high. It is over £700 million this year. It will be something like £730 million to £740 million next year. British Rail must live within that cash limit and accordingly make a settlement in its own way through its own negotiations. May I express one thought? I hope that British Rail will not automatically assume that the railway travelling public will go on paying ever higher fares, because they cannot do that.