NORTH ATLANTIC TREATY ORGANISATION
Q1. Mr. Marks
asked the Prime Minister when she will next meet Prime Ministers of North Atlantic Treaty Organisation countries.
The Prime Minister (Mrs. Margaret Thatcher)
I frequently see my colleagues, but there are no plans at present for a meeting of the North Atlantic Council at summit level.
Mr. Marks
Yesterday the Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office, said that the North Atlantic Council would be meeting today but that only certain countries would be represented. Will the Prime Minister assure the House that this is not a self-appointed group, and that all member countries of NATO, including those nearer to the Afghanistan conflict, have the opportunity to take part?
The Prime Minister
As far as I am aware, they are all there and have the opportunity to take part. They are very important discussions but I cannot be absolutely precise on that question.
Mr. Stokes
In view of the recent Soviet aggression in Afghanistan will my right hon. Friend consider whether this country should adopt further measures of rearmament, in spite of present economic difficulties?
The Prime Minister
I think that we are doing as much as we possibly can at the moment. We have undertaken to increase our expenditure by 3 per cent. over the outturn for this year. We must also give attention to the improvement of our economic position so that we may be able the better to defend our country in the future.
Mr. O'Neill
Would the Prime Minister care to explain to the workers of the Glynwed group in Falkirk, who have been told that they are to be made redundant this year, how a firm which makes a substantial contribution to the Tory Party funds at election times is now having——
Mr. Speaker
Order. We shall not come to open questions until we reach question Q5. The present question relates to NATO.
[column 1426]Mr. Garel-Jones
Will my right hon. Friend, in discussing with our NATO allies the future of the NATO Alliance, ensure that every encouragement is given to the Spanish Government, who have made clear that it is their intention to play a full part in the defence of the West? If an application to join NATO is made by that Government, what will be the attitude of the British Government? Will my right hon. Friend give us some indication?
The Prime Minister
Most of us would welcome it if Spain were to join NATO, because once again it would strengthen the defences of the free world. We are particularly anxious to have join us those countries which hitherto have had quite strong communist parties.
SWINDON
Q2. Mr. Stoddart
asked the Prime Minister if she will pay an official visit to Swindon.
The Prime Minister
I have at present no plans to do so.
Mr. Stoddart
Is the right hon. Lady aware that my constituents, oppressed by accelerating prices, by swinging increases in mortgage rates and rents, are now extremely concerned that they may be laid off because of her capricious negligence of the steel dispute? Will she come to Swindon and try to explain her policy and, better still, apologise to my constituents for the way in which she grossly misled them during the election about her policies and the results of those policies?
The Prime Minister
With regard to our policy on steel, as the hon. Gentleman knows, the taxpayer has been very generous to the steel industry in fully and properly equipping it so that it can increase productivity in the future. The question we have to ask is whether many people whose incomes are lower than the average income in the steel industry, should rightly be asked further to subsidise the steel industry in the future over and above the £450 million budget that we have decided to make available to the British Steel Corporation next year.
Mr. Foot
rose——
[column 1427]Mr. Speaker
Order. I treated that question as a constituency question, as I have done on all occasions when hon. Members have invited the Prime Minister to visit their constituencies. We shall reach the open question soon, when the other issues can come up.
ROME
Q3. Mr. Spearing
asked the Prime Minister when she next plans to make an official visit to Rome.
The Prime Minister
I have no immediate plans to do so. I visited Rome on 4 and 5 October and the Italian Prime Minister has accepted my invitation to visit London on 29 and 30 January.
Mr. Spearing
When the right hon. Lady next goes to Rome will it not be for the next meeting of the Council of the Heads of Government? Will she confirm to the House that she will press for the £1,000 million—no more and no less? Will she tell the House whether that figure includes projects such as loans for atomic power stations and can she say why the Government have agreed to increase the Euratom loan to £1,000 million when the Scrutiny Committee decided that that matter should be debated by this House before it was agreed?
Is she aware that this was agreed in the Council of Ministers on 20 December? Does that not break the undertaking given to this House?
The Prime Minister
I think that the next meeting of the European Council will probably be in Brussels in March, unless it is advanced specifically to deal with the budget problem. In the light of that the Italian Prime Minister, as President of the Council, is coming to London shortly. Of course, we shall press for vastly increased receipts for this country from the European budget so that we may substantially reduce our net contribution. We have given up no negotiating position.
Mr. Budgen
When my right hon. Friend next goes to Rome will she remind all the countries of the EEC that the principal argument for the creation, and also for the extension, of the EEC was that it would give political solidarity in times of crisis? If the French Government fail to give wholehearted support to our economic measures against Soviet Russia in the [column 1428]near future does she not think that the British people may draw a very important conclusion about the whole of the EEC?
The Prime Minister
There is an EEC meeting today about what further measures should be taken in relation to our decision to stand by the United States and the forthright observations of President Carter about Afghanistan. That is at present being considered and I think that it would be unwise to pre-empt the result of the meeting.
Mr. Shore
The right hon. Lady used the words “vastly increased” in terms of Community expenditure in Britain in the context of the European budget. Will she make it absolutely plain that her objective remains as it was before the Dublin summit, namely, to get a broad balance between the contribution and the receipts of the United Kingdom, and that she has not abandoned that objective?
The Prime Minister
I am not abandoning that objective, but let me be perfectly honest with the right hon. Gentleman and say what I said before. That is still the objective. We go for a genuine compromise, but we have not really very much room for manoeuvre. On the issue of receipts, if the European Economic Community increased our receipts to three quarters of the European average—judged per head of population—we should be home and dry.
Mr. Nicholas Winterton
Is my right hon. Friend aware that whether or not she has the wholehearted support of this House she has the wholehearted support of the people of this country in her demand that our contribution to the EEC budget should be reduced? Will she go to Rome, and future meetings of the EEC, in the knowledge that she has the support of the vast majority of the British people in demanding that we get justice within the EEC. Does she realise that she should not necessarily listen to members of the Opposition who, when all is said and done, actually [Interruption]——
Mr. Speaker
Order. I had hoped that we would reach question Q5 because that is an open one.
Mr. Winterton
May I remind my right hon. Friend that it was the Opposition who renegotiated our entry terms [column 1429]into the EEC? My right hon. Friend is the only person in the House who has taken a strong stand.
The Prime Minister
As my hon. Friend says, it was the policies of the Opposition which landed us with the contribution that we are now paying. I believe that I made it perfectly clear in Dublin that we were not to be satisfied with a small sum which was grossly inadequate in view of our equitable and justified claim.
Mr. Foot
The right hon. Lady has left the House in considerable doubt as to whether she is standing by what she originally said. Will she tell us, and give the specific reference, when she referred to a so-called “genuine compromise” —to use her words today—just prior to the Dublin meeting?
The Prime Minister
The phrase was used at Dublin and, I believe, either in my statement or in answer to questions in this House after I had returned from Dublin.
ARMS CONTROL
Q4. Mr. Frank Allaun
asked the Prime Minister, following the discussions in the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation during December, what response she will make to Mr. Brezhnev 's proposals.
The Prime Minister
In December NATO Ministers agreed on an important package of arms control proposals. These initiatives were under discussion well before Mr. Brezhnev's speech on 6 October, but they take account of Soviet ideas. Before the December meeting I had already replied to the letter which I received from Mr. Brezhnev following his speech. In my reply, I emphasised our determination both to rectify the growing imbalance in long range theatre nuclear capabilities and to make full use of the opportunities for arms control.
Mr. Allaun
While we condemn events in Afghanistan—as many of us condemned events in Vietnam and Suez—should not any offer of arms reduction at least be put to the test rather than be rebuffed by the installation of cruise and Pershing missiles on our soil? Does the Prime Minister agree with the Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office that it is in British interests and to our [column 1430]advantage that future arms reduction negotiations should succeed?
The Prime Minister
What has happened in Afghanistan—something which has been roundly condemned by the whole of the Western world and the non-aligned nations—has fully justified the stand that this Government have taken on defence and our determination to ensure that we always negotiate from strength. Of course, we are always willing to negotiate genuine arms control but the reply to Mr. Brezhnev, which was the result of the NATO meeting, was put forward on 18 December and was turned down by the Soviet authorities.
Mr. Amery
Will my right hon. Friend send a message to President Tito from the whole of this House wishing him a prompt recovery from his troubles? Will she make plain to Mr. Brezhnev that the British Government will do everything in their power to support Yugoslav resistance to any intervention calculated to threaten Yugoslavia's autonomy?
The Prime Minister
I am only too happy to send greetings to President Tito and to wish him a speedy recovery from his recent operation and to hope, and say, that we shall do everything we can to see that the independence of Yugoslavia is maintained.
PRIME MINISTER
(ENGAGEMENTS)
Q5. Mr. Bob Dunn
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 15 January.
The Prime Minister
In addition to my duties in this House I shall be having meetings with ministerial colleagues and others.
Mr. Dunn
Will my right hon. Friend take an opportunity to praise the amateur Olympic athletes who train in this country, often under the most horrific conditions? Does she not agree that the amateur status of the Olympic Games has been brought into disrepute in recent years by full-time professionals from the Eastern bloc? Is it not time that the International Olympic Committee revised the terms of reference of the Olympic Games?
The Prime Minister
It would be a rash person who became involved in the [column 1431]amateur/professional status of athletes. I am sure that my hon. Friend's words will not have gone unheard by the International Olympic Committee.
Mr. Foot
I return to the reply which the Prime Minister gave to an earlier question about the steel strike. How long does she propose to continue to recite to the country the figures which have been given by the British Steel Corporation and to refuse to have a single meeting with the leaders of the trade unions to hear their side of the case? How much does she think that is costing the country and British industry each year? How long must we tolerate her obstinacy on this subject?
The Prime Minister
Most of the figures come from the report from the sector working party on iron and steel which was published yesterday and which was signed by the trade union leaders. There are many tables in that document which show the comparative productivity of our steel industry as against other steel industries. The document was signed by both employers and unions.
Mr. Foot
If the right hon. Lady is so confident that those figures are correct—she quoted other figures when she appeared on television a few days ago—why is she so afraid to meet the trade union leaders?
The Prime Minister
I am not afraid to meet either the leaders of the trade union movement or leaders of any movement, as the right hon. Gentleman knows. If he cannot ask a better question than that, I do not know why he bothers.
Mr. Foot
In that case, will the Prime Minister announce to the House and to the country when she will meet the trade unions to hear the very figures of which she and her Secretary of State have so far refused to take any account?
The Prime Minister
Unlike the right hon. Member for Ebbw Vale (Mr. Foot), I assume that the trade union leaders are able to speak for themselves.