EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT
Q1. Mr. McQuarrie
asked the Prime Minister what arrangements she has made for regular meetings with the leader of the European Conservative Members of Parliament.
The Prime Minister (Mrs. Margaret Thatcher)
My right hon. and noble Friend Lord Carringtonthe Foreign and Commonwealth Secretary will maintain regular contacts with the leader of the European Democratic group and his colleagues.
Mr. McQuarrie
Will my right hon. Friend advise the leader of the European group that, when she is in Dublin to meet the Heads of State, she will advise member States that under no circumstances does she intend to permit the British Government to pay £915 million more to EEC funds than we receive in assistance, which is much more than that paid by Germany?
The Prime Minister
I entirely agree with my hon. Friend. The present contributions and those proposed for next year are absolutely intolerable. We have been saying so. It is our object at Dublin to get the amount reduced generally to a broad balance between what we put in and what we get out.
Mr. Stoddart
Will the right hon. Lady clarify the position to members of her party in the European Parliament? Will she make clear what she means? She has been blowing hot and cold. First, we had the tough talk; then, last Tuesday, the soft talk. Will she make clear to her colleagues that she intends to withhold the contribution unless it is made fair?
The Prime Minister
I am not aware that I have ever talked softly about this matter. The present battle has to be joined at Dublin on the European budget. What general would reveal his tactics before the battle has even begun?
Sir Derek Walker-Smith
Will my right hon. Friend include in any sage counsel and wise guidance she is minded to give [column 620]to the chairman of the group an exhortation that the work of some Members in the previous Parliament be continued and reinforced in seeking to ensure that the scope of Commission directives and regulations does not exceed that contemplated by the Treaty and the securing of the principle of no harmonisation for harmonisation's sake?
The Prime Minister
I agree entirely with my right hon. and learned Friend and praise his work in the last Parliament. The Commission is not there to standardise for the sake of standardisation but only where it is necessary to enable the objectives of the Treaty, namely the free movement of capital, goods and people, to be attained.
Mr. James Callaghan
Is the right hon. Lady aware that, since we initially raised this question, when there was not quite so much enthusiasm on the Conservative side and we were told that if only we would be good Europeans it would all come well, we now give her the full support that we wish she had given us earlier? She can go to Dublin knowing that there is a united House of Commons which wishes to see a successful conclusion to this matter? Is she also aware that, although we do not press now to know her tactics in the event of a refusal, we shall be very interested after the meeting has taken place?
The Prime Minister
That I totally accept. I trust that I shall be successful in negotiating a corrective mechanism at Dublin.
PRIME MINISTER
(ENGAGEMENTS)
Q2. Dr. McDonald
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her engagements for Thursday 25 October.
The Prime Minister
This morning I presided at a meeting of the Cabinet. In addition to my duties in this House, I shall be visiting the Young People's Parliament, organised under the auspices of the International Year of the Child. Later today I shall be meeting the Prime Minister of Egypt.
Dr. McDonald
Will the Prime Minister find time today to reflect on the fact that, in spite of her protestations of concern for the poor, as a result of her first [column 621]Budget the numbers of families caught in the trap of paying more tax and losing benefits for every extra pound they earn will reach an all-time high of 90,000 this year and that her Government are trying to conceal this fact by refusing to publish the figures?
The Prime Minister
The hon. Lady knows that the budget for health and personal social services this year is greater than it was last year and that next year it will be greater than it is this year. We have, therefore, given some priority to that. We have to learn to live within the nation's means; the more people are able to produce the more we shall be able to spend on desirable social services.
Mr. Tapsell
Would my right hon. Friend, later in the day—one does not necessarily want her to give an answer now to the substantive point—ask those whose responsibility it is to make it clear whether it is the intention actually to repeal the Exchange Control Act 1947?
The Prime Minister
As there is no intention of retaining exchange control, I believe that it can be repealed by order. Would my hon. Friend please ask Sir Geoffrey Howethe Chancellor of the Exchequer, whose task it is to answer accurately on the subject?
Mr. Alfred Morris
Will the right hon. Lady spare a moment today to congratulate the area health authority concerned on its decision not to close the child development centre at Charing Cross Hospital? Does she agree that it would have been an act of vandalism to close that important centre for handicapped children for a saving of £100,000?
The Prime Minister
I believe that a number of closures and threats of closures are being made which need not be made on a budget which is basically increased. I hope that people will not consider closing these very sensitive hospitals.
Mr. Neubert
On this anniversary of the battle of Agincourt, will my right hon. Friend attempt to rally the great mass of trade unionists in a campaign for higher productivity and increased production? Otherwise, will not the loss of more working days through strikes this year than in any year since the General Strike of 1926 look like an attempt at industrial suicide?
[column 622]The Prime Minister
I entirely agree with my hon. Friend. Unless we can get higher productivity and lower unit costs, we shall not get the increased prosperity which we all want to see. That is precisely why we gave such priority to income tax reductions as incentives in the Budget.
Mr. Allan Roberts
Does not the right hon. Lady accept that it is the greatest irony that she should be visiting the Young People's Parliament arranged during the International Year of the Child at a time when her Government are cutting services to children who are deprived, who go to day nurseries and who attend school?
The Prime Minister
The money being spent on the health and personal social services is actually increasing. What the hon. Gentleman's Government intended to do was to spend £4,000 million which they did not have. It is neither honourable nor moral to spend money over and above the standard of living which one can earn.
Mr. Budgen
Will my right hon. Friend today make a statement about immigration policy? In particular, will she take the opportunity to deny the widespread leaks and rumours to the effect that the Government are about to go back upon their specific manifesto promises in respect of immigration? Does she agree with me that if such a retreat were to be effected, many people who voted Tory at the last election would feel disappointed and that others might even feel deceived?
The Prime Minister
I confirm that the Government are not about to go back on their manifesto commitments. There will shortly be a White Paper laid before this House by my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary.
CABINET
(COMPOSITION)
Q4. Mr. Dubs
asked the Prime Minister if she plans to announce any changes in the Cabinet.
The Prime Minister
No, Sir.
Mr. Dubs
Has the Prime Minister not been informed of what happened in the House last night, when her Energy Ministers managed to score an own goal [column 623]by defeating the Government on the question of paraffin prices? When will the Prime Minister go and see Her Majesty and present a Humble Address so that our pensioners may once again get cheaper paraffin?
The Prime Minister
I understand that, to put it mildly, there was something of a mix-up. That is an occupational hazard of Chief Whips on both sides of the House. I made it clear that those who got us into this mess must get us out of it.
Mr. Adley
Will my right hon. Friend nevertheless reflect with gratitude, to return to the question, that, unlike her predecessor, she is at least in the happy position of being able to make changes from time to time if she wants to without being subject to outside political pressures?
The Prime Minister
I do not have any particular personnel changes in mind at the moment.
Mr. Kilroy-Silk
Will the right hon. Lady ask her Cabinet colleagues to explain, since she and they keep reiterating that public expenditure is not to be reduced, why so many hospital wards, hospitals, children's homes, old people's homes, community centres and day centres are being closed in the biggest act of Tory vandalism for decades?
The Prime Minister
I should be grateful if the hon. Gentleman would now and then look at the articles written by Joel Barnettthe former Chief Secretary to the Treasury, which pointed out that, when more money is taken out on pay, there is less to spend on other things.
PLANNING REGIONS
(EMPLOYMENT)
Q5. Mr. Stoddart
asked the Prime Minister if she will estimate the number of jobs lost in each planning region of the United Kingdom as a result of the policies of Her Majesty's Government.
The Prime Minister
The number of unemployed, seasonally adjusted and excluding school leavers, has in fact declined by 24,000 since this Government took office.
Mr. Stoddart
Is the right hon. Lady aware that instead of answering the question [column 624]she has evaded the issue? Is she aware that her attitude towards unemployment is both complacent and faint-hearted? Is she further aware that her regional policy will result in a greater concentration of industry in the so-called “golden triangle” of the EEC and that the removal of exchange controls this week will further exacerbate that position?
The Prime Minister
The greatest threat to jobs in this country is extravagant pay claims which go beyond what is warranted by increased productivity. When that happens, costs and prices go up and jobs will disappear.
Mr. Gummer
Will my right hon. Friend seek to encourage Labour Members from the regions to explain in the regions that only by increased productivity and moderated wage demands can we solve our unemployment problems?
The Prime Minister
I cannot emphasise this too much. We shall get increased prosperity only through increased productivity. We shall avoid higher inflation and higher unemployment only with wage demands which are related to output.
Mr. Allen McKay
Does the Prime Minister agree that the extravagant wage claims that she talks about are caused by the policies of her and her Government and the attitude that they took towards the last Government, beginning with the Ford claim?
The Prime Minister
No, Sir. Pay claims that go beyond productivity can be allowed only at the expense of others, and those others are such people as old age pensioners, who cannot use industrial muscle on the same scale.
Mr. Michael Brown
Will my right hon. Friend accept the congratulations of the country on three consecutive reductions in the unemployment figures? Will she further accept that part of the reason is that the Government have taken such a robust attitude on regional policy?
The Prime Minister
We shall achieve genuine improvements in the job position only when we have increasing numbers of small businesses expanding. Our policies and strategies are directed to that end.