Speeches, etc.

Margaret Thatcher

House of Commons PQs

Document type: Speeches, interviews, etc.
Venue: House of Commons
Source: Hansard HC [954/260-66]
Editorial comments: 1515-30.
Importance ranking: Major
Word count: 2251
[column 260]

PRIME MINISTER (ENGAGEMENTS)

Q1. Mr. Litterick

asked the Prime Minister if he will list his public engagements for 18th July.

The Prime Minister (Mr. James Callaghan)

In addition to my duties in this House, I shall be holding meetings with ministerial colleagues and others, including one with members of the general council of the Trades Union Congress.

Mr. Litterick

I am grateful for that answer. Will my right hon. Friend take some time today to take note of the sweet-talking speech made by the Leader of the Opposition at the weekend to a gathering of Asian immigrants and note the sharp and cynical contrast between the tone and content of that speech and the “shock horror” television statement she made some weeks earlier, averring that the country was being swamped with Asian immigrants? Will he——

Mr. Speaker

Order. It will save time if I make this point early. If the hon. Gentleman will ask the Prime Minister questions on matters for which he has responsibility, that will help us all.

Mr. Litterick

Has my right hon. Friend or the Leader of the House received a request from the Leader of the Opposition, which she promised she would make as a matter of urgency, for time to debate the subject of immigration?

The Prime Minister

The Lord President tells me that he has received no request for a debate on immigration. I would welcome, as I am sure the whole House would welcome, such a debate. [Hon. Members: “You supply the time.” ] There is not much time left, because the Opposition, who had under their control most of the available free [column 261]parliamentary time, have failed to use this opportunity to have such a debate. However, if the right hon. Lady's speech means that she is moving closer to the Government's policy in these matters, I welcome it. I have never wanted this to be a matter of party dispute.

Mrs. Thatcher

May I cross-examine James Callaghanthe Prime Minister on the Government's policies? Last Thursday the right hon. Gentleman did not know that his own Government's record on unemployment was one of the worst in the western world. As today's figures show unemployment rising to 1.5 million and job vacancies falling, what is his excuse this time?

The Prime Minister

I reflected on the right hon. Lady's question last week because I thought that it was a most interesting one. I find that the Conservative Party documents take the view that I rather take on these matters. They say that it is “idle” to talk of an “economic miracle” because our problems are so deep-seated——

Dr. Hampson

The Prime Minister talked like that.

The Prime Minister

—and that what is needed for Britain is a “long hard haul.” This has been true because of the decline of this country's comparative productive capacity over a period of 50 years.

However, as the right hon. Lady repeats the question, I will answer her. Unlike her and the Administration of which she was a member, we have not run away from the problems by dodging increases in the prices of the products of nationalised industries or by dodging the needs for a new industrial strategy or by dodging the question of inflation or by allowing the money supply to go awry. What we have done is to take the basic issues and handle them. That is well understood in the country. We shall continue to do so. I am very glad to say that unemployment has increased at a relatively lower rate this year than in past years. That shows that our policies are beginning to pay off.

Mrs. Thatcher

The Prime Minister will recollect that he inherited a figure of 600,000 unemployed. Under his Prime Ministership and Harold Wilsonhis predecessor's, it is now 1.5 million. Does not this prove that Socialism is incapable of creating [column 262]genuine jobs and increasing wealth, but is capable only of sharing out wealth that other people have already created?

The Prime Minister

No, Sir. What it shows is that the world has been going through a substantial recession in which every major country has had a large increase in unemployment. That is what it shows, and that is what the Bonn summit was about yesterday and the day before. But, as the right hon. Lady talks about our inheritance, I shall quote a few more things that we inherited—a disgraceful rate of increase in the money supply, a disgraceful rate of inflation, a disgraceful rate of increase in the minimum lending rate, and half a dozen other matters. We put those right.

Miss Joan Lestor

Will my right hon. Friend find time in his busy schedule to go to South Africa House and see whether he can get it opened in order that he may deliver birthday greetings to Nelson Mandela on the occasion of his sixtieth birthday, after 16 years on Robben Island, greetings which the South African authorities refused earlier today to accept from the Labour Party, sections of the Liberal Party, the trade union movement, students and a cross-section of society? Will he please try to do that?

The Prime Minister

I have long been, as I know my hon. Friends are and I hope many Opposition Members are, an admirer of Nelson Mandela. Whether or not South Africa House accepts the greetings, I should like on behalf of Her Majesty's Government to send him formal greetings from this Dispatch Box. [Hon. Members: “Come on Margaret.” ]

Q2. Mr. Andrew MacKay

asked the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for 18th July.

The Prime Minister

I refer the hon. Member to the reply which I have just given to my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Selly Oak (Mr. Litterick).

Mr. MacKay

During his hectic day, will the Prime Minister explain to the House how these disastrous unemployment figures tally with his party's slogan at the last election “Back to work with Labour” ? Is he aware that the 900,000 people who have been put on the dole by the incompetence of his Government want a straight answer to this question?

[column 263]

The Prime Minister

Yes, Sir. It is, of course, the case that in the hon. Gentleman's constituency there would be many more unemployed if the Opposition had had their way about Leyland and, indeed, about many other such matters. It is also true that the situation is much better than it was when we had a three-day week——

Mrs. Kellett-Bowman

No, it is not.

The Prime Minister

—and that production is higher now than it was then, as indeed it should be. If the hon. Gentleman should happen to be here after the next General Election, which I very much doubt, he will find that unemployment will be going down steadily.

Mr. Frank Allaun

As it was agreed at Bonn yesterday to stimulate the western economies, will my right hon. Friend today consider expanding ours by means particularly of removing or relaxing the restrictions on housing, health——

Mr. Tebbit

And dividends.

Mr. Allaun

—the social services and education? Contrary to the views expressed from the Opposition Benches, would not this help simultaneously to relieve human need and unemployment?

The Prime Minister

Yes, Sir. I think that the faster rate of economic growth that this country is experiencing this year clearly gives us a bigger dividend—but not the kind of dividend that the hon. Member for Chingford (Mr. Tebbit) was referring to—for increasing those public expenditures. But we must not increase public expenditure until we have earned it, and so far we have not earned it.

Mr. Donald Stewart

As the Government admit that food prices have risen by 104 per cent. since they came to office—[Hon. Members: “Common Market.” ]—running alongside restriction of wage increases, does not the Prime Minister think that he should take time off today to announce the end of this attack on the living standards of the people?

The Prime Minister

The right hon. Gentleman is wrong. Wages have gone up faster than food prices over the past four or five years. That has had no impact on living standards. Indeed, living standards are going up this year. I agree with the right hon. Gentleman that, [column 264]because of the situation we inherited, food prices went up very fast in the early years of this Government, but I hope that he will rejoice with me in the fact that during the past 12 months they have increased by only 6.7 per cent.

CBI

Q4. Mr. Gwilym Roberts

asked the Prime Minister what plans he has to meet the CBI.

The Prime Minister

I hope to meet representatives of the CBI tomorrow. Further meetings will be arranged as necessary.

Mr. Roberts

Does my right hon. Friend accept that the Government's industrial strategy has been greatly welcomed on both sides of industry and that they are equally aware that the Opposition clearly have no industrial strategy? But, in his discussions with the CBI, can he suggest further Government action to implement some of the recommendations of the sector working parties?

The Prime Minister

Yes, Sir. It is my profound belief and knowledge that the CBI and the TUC together welcome the Government's industrial strategy, despite the attacks that the Opposition constantly make upon it. We are constantly working with industry through the sector working parties. Indeed, much of the work that is now being done is being translated to the level of firms. This is helping to increase productive efficiency and exports.

Mrs. Kellett-Bowman

Is the Prime Minister aware that in my constituency unemployment has risen to 7.6 per cent., which is three times as high as it was at the time of the three-day week? When he is talking with the CBI, will he inform it that he intends to make ours a development area so that industrialists will receive better grants to bring factories into our area?

The Prime Minister

If the hon. Lady will put down a Question to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Industry on development areas, I am sure that she will receive an answer. But I must point out that what she seeks would involve additional public expenditure, and her own leaders are heavily [column 265]committed against that. But that is not the only discrepancy we find between their general statements and their particular requests.

As to the levels of unemployment, I think that what we did at Bonn yesterday will help with this matter throughout the world and will therefore have an impact on our own country. But it would be wrong and mischievous for anyone to pretend that the level of unemployment, either throughout the industrialised world or in the United Kingdom, will come down fast, because it will not. That is why we must keep the temporary employment subsidies and our other job-creating measures. Some day I should like some support from the Opposition for those.

Mr. Whitehead

As my right hon. Friend has been having some very successful talks with trade unions recently, will he bear in mind that one thing that would upset many trade unionists is any decision to return aero-engines to Chile? Will the Cabinet reconsider that?

The Prime Minister

It is not a matter for the Cabinet to reconsider. It is not a Cabinet matter at all, except on the question of the issue of an export licence. The engines belong to Chile. Whether I like that or not is not in question. They were sent here for repair and now they are due to be returned, as the repair has been paid for. That is the legal position, and the Government do not come into the matter.

Mr. Prior

In view of the excuses produced by the Prime Minister this afternoon on the subject of unemployment, may I ask whether he has forgotten that his party and his right hon. Friends fought the October 1974 General Election on the basis that unemployment was under control and that inflation was coming down? Were they perhaps not telling the truth then? Therefore, what is the excuse for anyone's believing them next time?

The Prime Minister

I do not know whether anyone will believe me. I can only tell the facts as I see them. It is for the public, not for the Opposition, to make up their minds about that. I think that they have a pretty good idea about it. What is quite clear is that the world recession which started in 1973, [column 266]following the quintupling of oil prices, has been longer than any country expected. It was to unemployment that all of the seven nations which assembled yesterday were directing their attention. I hope that we shall be able to overcome this problem, but I will not make false promises about it. As regards inflation, as the right hon. Gentleman knows, we have reduced the level much below what is was when he was in office. Further, we have kept it under control.