EUROPEAN COMMUNITY
(ECONOMIC AND SOCIAL COMMITTEE)
Q1. Mr. Loveridge
asked the Prime Minister if, when considering the nomination of future members of the EEC Social and Economic Committee, he will reduce to seven the number of members representing trade unions so as to allow for at least one representative to speak directly for small businesses.
The Prime Minister (Mr. James Callaghan)
Membership of the Economic and Social Committee of the EEC is due to be renewed in September. The United Kingdom, in common with other large member States of the Community, sends 24 representatives, of whom eight represent employers' interests, eight represent employee interests and eight represent a variety of other interests. There are no plans to change that overall balance; but, within that framework, the Government intend to nominate representatives covering as wide a range of interests as possible, and consultations to that end are now under way.
Mr. Loveridge
Although I am encouraged by that answer, is the Prime Minister aware that the smaller business sector in Europe is proportionately much stronger than our own and, therefore, deserves fuller direct representation from us? Is he aware also that the Opposition support his measures to strengthen our own small business sector in order to expand and create jobs? Will he, therefore, continue to adopt further Conservation policies for small businesses as the General Election draws nearer?
The Prime Minister
As the Budget made clear, there is no doubt about the Government's policy in relation to the encouragement of small businesses and enterprises, and we shall continue to do [column 1657]that. As for whether there can be separate representation on the Economic and Social Committee, there is a great deal of competition for that and a tremendous number of people have asked whether they can be represented. We shall not be able to satisfy them all.
Mrs. Dunwoody
Quite apart from cutting down trade union representation on the Committee, will my right hon. Friend make sure that someone is there who specifically understands the problems of youth unemployment? It will be quite impossible, if we are to have grandiose schemes from the Commission, without having those capable of putting them into commission as soon as possible.
The Prime Minister
Certainly I shall take note of that. Of course, the employers' group and the employees' group nominate their own representatives. I am sure that the trade unions and perhaps the employers will keep my hon. Friend's request in mind.
Mr. Maurice Macmillan
In view of the Government's conversion to supporting small businesses, may I press the Prime Minister to include somewhere in the list of representatives someone to represent unquoted companies and unincorporated businesses—and here I must declare an interest—since these companies represent some 40 per cent. of the gross domestic product?
The Prime Minister
Yes, but the Confederation of British Industry includes a number of these organisations and there is, therefore, every reason why they should look to the CBI for representation. However, I shall bear in mind the right hon. Gentleman's request.
Mr. Ian Lloyd
Has the Prime Minister's attention been drawn to the report prepared for the Anglo-German Foundation by Arthur D. Little on small businesses in the United Kingdom and Western Europe, and can he say whether any of the valuable recommendations in that report have been drawn to the attention of the Departments which should be taking some action on them?
The Prime Minister
I have not read it myself, but I am sure that my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, who is active in this area, will have done so. In case my right hon. [column 1658]Friend has not done so, I shall draw his attention to what the hon. Gentleman said.
Mr. Welsh
Will the Prime Minister follow the lead given by other EEC States in encouraging small businesses by, for example, introducing a fully-fledged Minister for the self-employed and small business affairs and by immediately abolishing the iniquitous self-employed levy?
The Prime Minister
The SNP seems to be a little behind the times. I thought I had made it clear—I think that everyone else in the House knew it already—that my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster has special responsibility for small firms and that in the Department of Industry an Under-Secretary of State handles these affairs too.
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND SOCIAL SECURITY
(PERSONAL FILES)
Q2. Mr. Tebbit
asked the Prime Minister if, since he became Prime Minister, he has requested or received personal files concerning private citizens, copies of such files or personal information from such files from the Department of Health and Social Security other than for normal investigations that are being carried out into particular cases.
The Prime Minister
No.
Mr. Tebbit
Is the Prime Minister aware that his answer does not surprise me, and that I welcome it? Does he not agree that the citizen should be assured by some form of code or convention that it is simply not possible for Ministers to have access to individuals' files which they might misuse for political purposes? Will he agree that no Minister should do that and no Prime Minister could regard it as anything other than totally abhorrent if at any stage that were done?
The Prime Minister
I am obliged to the hon. Member for writing to me about this matter. I entirely agree that it would be totally wrong if correspondence about private citizens were misused for political purposes. It would breed mistrust if it were thought that a Minister on either side of the House—present, future or past[column 1659]—was doing so. I can give an assurance that on my understanding this does not happen. It would be quite foreign and wrong if it were to happen.
I considered drawing up a form of code or convention as the hon. Member has suggested, but there are a number of circumstances in which Ministers may want to consult papers. Therefore, we must leave it to Ministers' good faith and there must be good faith between us that these papers will not be misused.
Mr. Fitt
Does the answer that the Prime Minister has just given cover that part of the United Kingdom known as Northern Ireland? In Northern Ireland there is a suspicion that many secret files relating to national health and insurance are vetted every day by members of the security forces. Will he give an assurance that this is not so and that it is a practice with which he would not be in accord?
The Prime Minister
Of course, this is not a practice which should be followed. It is totally foreign to what I have said. I will not give the assurance that my hon. Friend has asked for in the first part of his question because this is a serious charge and I should look into it. However, no one should deduce from my answer that this practice is happening.
Mr. Ralph Howell
In reply to my hon. Friend the Member for Chingford (Mr. Tebbit), the Prime Minister said that it is not happening. Will he say whether it did happen?
The Prime Minister
I cannot account for any Administrations earlier than my own—and in saying that I am referring to all Administrations previous to my own.
PRIME MINISTER
(ENGAGEMENTS)
Q4. Mr. Silvester
asked the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Thursday 13th April 1978.
The Prime Minister
This morning I presided at a meeting of the Cabinet. In addition to my duties in this House, I shall be holding further meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. Later today I shall be leaving for a visit to West Yorkshire.
[column 1660]Mr. Silvester
Will the Prime Minister spare a moment to consider with his party colleagues how much damage was done by the distribution of 100,000 leaflets by the Young Socialists to schools before he intervened? Does he believe that it is desirable to continue—as is reported—the process of recruitment in schools when he takes an opposite view about the National Front?
The Prime Minister
I do not answer at the Dispatch Box for party matters. This is a party matter, and I have nothing to say at the Dispatch Box.
Mr. Spearing
In his busy schedule, will the Prime Minister take time to reflect on proposals made last weekend in Brussels for a semi European currency linked to the European unit of account? Will he agree that the way to resolve employment and industrial difficulties is through world trade? Will he agree that this is a much better way of solving the problems of both this country and the EEC? Such proposals as those put forward in Brussels are half-way to economic and monetary union, which would be opposed by hon. Members of this House.
The Prime Minister
I dealt with most of these questions last Monday, when I made a report on the subject. I have not changed my mind since then.
Mrs. Thatcher
Has James Callaghanthe Prime Minister taken time today to consider the effects on the financial markets of the Budget and, in particular, the effect of the declared intention by both Denis Healeythe Chancellor and Joel Barnettthe Chief Secretary to introduce a fourteenth Budget in July? Will he agree that quarterly budgets add to uncertainty and induce lack of confidence in the markets at a time when we need confidence?
The Prime Minister
As a general matter, I have often noticed that the financial markets over-react to statements, and I do not regard them as good short-term judges of speeches or statements. I think that the Leader of the Opposition is rather misquoting what has been said. There has been no declared intention to my knowledge to introduce another Budget, and, indeed, I am not aware of any intention to do so. All that has been said is that we are now working towards a world situation—I know that the right hon. Lady disapproves of these international gatherings—in which it will be possible [column 1661]to restore some confidence. Unless and until that happens, I do not see any prospect at all for another Budget.
Mrs. Thatcher
May I press the Prime Minister a little further? The fall in the markets today was serious, and it came after an increase of 1 per cent. in the minimum lending rate. It also came in the face of the Chancellor's own forecasts of rising inflation next year and of economic figures forecasting a deteriorating trade balance in the first half of this year. Is the Prime Minister now saying that there is no present intention to introduce a July Budget? If so, this would add to confidence.
The Prime Minister
I am obliged to the Leader of the Opposition for putting it in that direct way. I thought I had already said that. I know of no intention—[Hon. Members: “Oh.” ]—to introduce a Budget in July, and I should have thought that I would be the first to be informed of such an event. I am sure that the right hon. Lady is trying to restore confidence, and I assure her that, as I know of no intention, there is no intention. Of course, from time to time there are changes in our domestic situation and in the international situation, and that is what the July Summit is all about. We want to get a higher level of world trade. But, unless and until that happens—and so far the preliminary work has not proceeded far enough—there is no prospect of a July Budget.
Mr. Mellish
Is my right hon. Friend aware that, if the Chancellor is in the same mood in future as he was on Tuesday, as far as we are concerned he can come here every day?
The Prime Minister
I am sure that my right hon. Friend the Member for Bermondsey (Mr. Mellish) and many others feel that way. This Budget brought benefits to almost every person in the country. We have said constantly that it is important that we should not overstretch ourselves, and the Budget is intended to keep within the proper limits. We shall continue to govern the country in that way.
Mr. Baker
Will the Prime Minister fill in that part of the Budget strategy about which the Chancellor was rather coy? We want to hear from the Prime [column 1662]Minister what level of wage settlements he would like to see when phase 3 expires later this year. What will happen in phase 4? Will there be a limit of 5 per cent. or 7 per cent.? If there is no limit for the private sector, the Prime Minister and the Chancellor must decide whether there will be one for the public sector and what the level of wage settlements will be.
The Prime Minister
I am grateful to the hon. Member for reminding me of all these factors. I assure him that they are kept fully in mind.
Mr. Jay
Is the Prime Minister aware that, if we had adopted the Tory policy of much bigger tax cuts and, therefore, bigger deficits, the effect on the markets would have been very serious?
The Prime Minister
Yes, that is undoubtedly true. This is the dilemma in which the Opposition find themselves. On the one hand they press irresponsibly for bigger tax cuts, and on the other they look at the level of tax that we have decided to cut and then they try to rebuke us because they think that we have gone too far.
Sir P. Bryan
Further to the Prime Minister's answer to my hon. Friend the Member for Manchester, Withington (Mr. Silvester), may I ask him to make an appointment today with the Secretary of State for Education and Science and ask her opinion of the fact that Mr. Andy Bevan, an official of his party, took part in and organised the distribution of leaflets aimed at recruiting young children to the National Union of Schoolchildren?
The Prime Minister
No, sir. It is well established, Mr. Speaker—and you would correct me if I endeavoured to break the rule—that I do not answer at the Dispatch Box on party matters. I answer on the responsibilities of the Government.
Mr. Adley
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. The Prime Minister has just said that he will not answer Questions on a party matter. Are you aware that the Table Office has refused to accept Questions to the Prime Minister about his message to the Labour candidate at Glasgow, Garscadden because it was said that it was a party matter? But presumably the Prime Minister used No. 10 Downing [column 1663]Street paper on which to write that message. May we have some clarification on the matter, because the Prime Minister is trying to have it both ways?
Mr. Speaker
I have already received—[Hon. Members: “Oh.” ] Order. I hope that hon. Members will have the courtesy to wait until I have finished. I have already received private representations from another hon. Member on that matter. I have promised the hon. Gentleman concerned to look at the matter, and I shall be writing to him.