DENMARK (PRIME MINISTER)
Q1. Mr. Whitehead
asked the Prime Minister what plans he has to meet the Prime Minister of Denmark.
The Prime Minister (Mr. James Callaghan)
I expect to meet Mr. Jorgensen at the next meeting of the European Council at Copenhagen on 7th and 8th April.
Mr. Whitehead
At that meeting, will my right hon. Friend raise with the Council of Ministers the question of Japanese car imports into this country in particular and the EEC in general, bearing in mind our vulnerability to manufactured imports, especially cars? Does he agree that EEC action is now needed to prevent the Japanese, who have recently refused to continue voluntary restrictions, from exporting unemployment to Europe? Will not that lead later to a savage trade war?
The Prime Minister
The European Community has up to the moment regarded this matter as being best dealt with by bilateral discussions between the motor car industries. Such discussions have taken place. I believe that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Trade will be answering a Question on [column 1219]the Japanese situation later this afternoon which indicates that the Japanese motor car industry expects to take a lower market share in this country during 1978 than it took in 1977. If, therefore, our own production can increase, we can fill that gap very easily.
Mr. Welsh
When the Prime Minister meets the Danish Prime Minister, will he ask him for lessons on how to defend the interests of the agriculture industry in the Common Market? Is he aware of the present drastic fall in United Kingdom livestock numbers caused by the failure of Government policies to defend adequately the United Kingdom livestock industry? What will he positively do about that?
The Prime Minister
I was not aware that my right hon. Friend the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food was regarded as having failed to defend the interests of British agriculture in the Community. Indeed, I thought the protests were that he was defending them too well. I must say that I think there is a period of expansion ahead for British agriculture at the present time.
Mr. Roper
Will my right hon. Friend take advantage of his meeting with Mr. Jorgensen to discuss the possibility of a meeting between the leaders of the Socialist Parties of the European Community in order to discuss preparations for direct elections?
Mr. Skinner
No. Leave it alone.
The Prime Minister
If I need any guide to my conscience, I shall take my hon. Friend with me and we can talk about it together. I must say that, however sympathetic I might be, there is no ministerial responsibility for party meetings.
Mr. Marten
When the Prime Minister meets the Danish Prime Minister, will he take with him a copy of the excellent article in yesterday's evening newspaper by his hon. Friend the Member for Lewisham, West (Mr. Price), who spent a year at the European Assembly and has written a very critical article saying what a farce the whole thing is?
The Prime Minister
If that is the case, I do not know why the hon. Gentleman is so intent on opposing any additions to [column 1220]the European Assembly or opposing the elections that would take place.
CBI and TUC
Q2. Mr. Wrigglesworth
asked the Prime Minister when he last met the CBI and TUC.
The Prime Minister
I refer my hon. Friend to the reply which I gave to my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield, Hillsborough (Mr. Flannery) on 2nd February.
Mr. Wrigglesworth
When my right hon. Friend meets the TUC and CBI, will he confirm that the Conservative Opposition are totally out of step not only with trade unionists but with the CBI with regard to incomes and economic policies? Will he remind them of the comments made by the right hon. Member for Worcester (Mr. Walker) in which he said that he was depressed by the Tory leadership at present following nineteenth century Tory free market principles that would lead only to squalor, slums and injustice in our society?
The Prime Minister
I would not like my hon. Friend to think that when I meet the CBI and the TUC we spend a lot of time discussing the Opposition. As regards the right hon. Member for Worcester (Mr. Walker), I agree that he follows the line of people like R. A. Butler, Macmillan and Macleod who cared about one nation. The only difference is that they were then in charge of the Conservative Party, whereas the right hon. Member for Worcester has to speak in exile from below the Gangway.
Mr. Forman
When the Prime Minister next meets the TUC and the CBI, will he strongly resist any calls for a return to protectionism through Government policies, bearing in mind that this would not be in the interests of British consumers? Also, if this is done through the EEC, it may well mean retaliatory action from the Americans, which would be very damaging to our prospects for recovery.
The Prime Minister
We have, since the war, attempted to lower trade barriers. Now it seems that the tide could be turning the other way because of the growth of industrial unemployment throughout the Western world. For Britain this would be a serious reversal as [column 1221]21 per cent. of our gross national product comes from foreign trade. This does not mean that we cannot take selective action—and we have done. The United States has a great complaint against the EEC now in relation to agricultural products, and I have some sympathy with it.
Mr. Stan Crowther
When the Prime Minister next meets the TUC and the CBI, will he discuss with them the advisability of reducing the standard working week for manual workers and the retiring age for men? The development of technology means that manual labour will be reduced progressively. It is far better to pay men in their 60s a decent pension to retire than to have men in their 30s and 40s with families out of work.
Mr. Cormack
Retire!
The Prime Minister
I fear that, on that basis, about three-quarters of the present House of Commons would have to go——
Hon. Members
Hear, hear.
Mr. Speaker
Order. The Prime Minister must not be personal.
The Prime Minister
I thought that all the cheers were coming from the younger generation. However, my hon. Friend the Member for Rotherham (Mr. Crowther) has a serious point and one which will concern the industrial world increasingly over the next decade—the question of the extent to which the manufacturing industry can provide additional jobs. We have not yet solved this problem. Constantly I press upon the TUC the need to raise these matters within the European TUC, so that through the European Council as a whole action can be taken internationally, or at least on an EEC basis. We cannot make it impossible for this country to compete by increasing our costs unduly.
Mrs. Thatcher
Does James Callaghanthe Prime Minister recall the industrial growth targets for manufacturing industry that were accepted by NEDC in the year of the economic miracle—in August 1976—after they had been presented by Denis Healeythe Chancellor? The target was for a growth rate in manufacturing industry at an annual average rate of 8 per cent. over [column 1222]four years. What is the target for next year, since that target has not yet been revised?
The Prime Minister
I do not recall that particular figure. I really do not see why the Leader of the Opposition should expect me to come here charged with every figure in my head that the gang of four has sedulously fed her for Prime Minister's Questions. I would agree with the right hon. Lady that efforts to overcome inflation combined with the problems of the oil-producing countries have created a situation in which it has not been possible to grow. However, we have broadly overcome inflation—[Hon. Members: “Oh.” ] I said “broadly” . Perhaps I had better repeat the figures. When the Conservatives left office, inflation was running at 15.2 per cent. It is now 9.9 per cent. and steadily decreasing. I hope that the Chancellor, when he makes his Budget Statement, will be able to give the right hon. Lady a reply on the growth figures this year.
Mrs. Thatcher
The Prime Minister refers to the gang of four. The trouble here is the gang of one at the Treasury. This manufacturing growth rate, which the Prime Minister does not know, is the basis for what is known as scenario II, which is based on the assumptions of all the sector working parties. Is not the Prime Minister aware that his own industrial strategy has always consisted of pie in the sky tomorrow and an appalling performance today? Would it not be better to turn to an incentive strategy, instead of high taxation and no incentive for the individual?
The Prime Minister
I am obliged to the right hon. Lady for that information. I am always ready to receive it. However, it is a case not of giving information but of digesting and using it, and that is what I sometimes wonder about. As far as industrial strategy is concerned, I would suggest that the Opposition stop behaving in this Pavlovian way. Manufacturing industry—employers, managers and trade unionists—strongly supports the Government in trying to get a new approach to industrial strategy. They are working hard in the industrial working parties, and I hope that at some time the Opposition will pay tribute to what they are doing.
[column 1223]BELFAST
Q3. Mr. Litterick
asked the Prime Minister if he will pay a visit to Belfast.
The Prime Minister
Such visits are not announced in advance.
Mr. Litterick
Is my right hon. Friend aware that, according to the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, there are now 32,000 armed men who are vainly attempting to make Northern Ireland governable? In this the ninth year of the present conflict in the Province, does he agree that that figure is evidence of the failure of all political initiatives by both Labour and Conservative Governments, and will he therefore consider seriously the ending of British sovereignty in Northern Ireland?
The Prime Minister
It is much easier to attack what is being done than to propose a solution to end the violence. I do not think for one moment that any suggestion that we should withdraw from Northern Ireland would do anything but increase to a savage extent the violence in the Province.
Mr. Powell
When the Prime Minister comes again to Northern Ireland—and he is always welcome there—will he note that the latest bout of terror has left the people of Northern Ireland as unshaken and determined as ever? Is he aware that the only effect of IRA violence in the past eight years has been to strengthen the Union? Will he see that that message gets across to the IRA?
The Prime Minister
I also suggest to the right hon. Member for Down, South (Mr. Powell) that the violence has had the effect of separating a great many of the minority population from what would seem to be the aspirations of the old IRA and the existing PIRA. My own experience of Northern Ireland—which is far less than that of the right hon. Member and his colleagues—is that an over-whelming proportion of Catholics and minority groups strongly dissociate themselves from the violence that has taken place. We should all pay tribute to that.