CHANCELLOR SCHMIDT
Q1. Mr. Marten
asked the Prime Minister when the next expects to meet the German Chancellor.
[column 281]The Prime Minister (Mr. James Callaghan)
I expect to meet Chancellor Schmidt at the next European Council in Brussels on 5th and 6th December.
Mr. Marten
I applaud some of the Prime Minister's remarks at the Lord Mayor's Banquet last night, and also some of the remarks that he made to the General Secretary of the Labour Party in his letter on the European Community, but will he, when he meets the Chancellor of Germany, stress that we shall not accept fedralism in this country, that we shall retain control over our parliamentary and governmental system here, and that we shall control our legislation here? Does he agree that it is only right and fair, before the enlargement of the Community, that we should make this absolutely clear to our partners and to new members who may be joining the Community?
The Prime Minister
With respect, I do not think that it is necessary to make it clearer than I have done. Indeed, I came in for quite a bit of criticism last time from what I would call professional Europeans—although not from the Heads of Government—about those remarks. I am pretty confident that the views I expressed are widely shared by the Heads of a number of other Governments.
Mr. Greville Janner
Will my right hon. Friend take the first opportunity to express to the German Chancellor the revulsion felt in this country at the proposed visit this week of three former senior SS officers—one of whom was in Hitler's bodyguard—to launch a book designed to whitewash this organisation? As the SS was concerned not only with the killing of British prisoners but with the setting up and operation of Hitler's extermination camps, does he not consider that such a visit would be an extreme provocation to hundreds of thousands of people in this country, and that it ought to be banned?
Mr. Faulds
Like the visit of Mr. Begin.
The Prime Minister
I think that all of this goes to show that we must be very careful about the company we keep on all occasions. As regards the supplementary question of my hon. and learned Friend, the record of that German division is well known and excoriated, but [column 282]what happens if these gentlemen offer themselves at the port of entry will, of course, be a matter for the immigration authorities.
SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE ENVIRONMENT
Q2. Mr. Michael Latham
asked the Prime Minister whether he will dismiss the Secretary of State for the Environment.
The Prime Minister
I refer the hon. Member to the reply which I gave to the hon. Member for Brentwood and Ongar (Mr. McCrindle) on 8th November.
Mr. Latham
Will the Prime Minister say unequivocally that neither he nor the Secretary of State has any intention of implementing the half-baked proposals approved at the Labour Party conference last month for the nationalisation of large construction companies and a massive expansion of direct labour departments?
The Prime Minister
The manifesto of the Labour Party will be drawn up in due course, and I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will read it carefully when it appears.
Mr. Joseph Dean
Does the Prime Minister agree that the hon. Member for Melton (Mr. Latham), if he seriously has the welfare of the construction industry at heart, would do better to try to persuade some conservative-controlled local authorities which are quite unnecessarily cutting back housing programmes to get those programmes under way? That would have some effect on the unemployment figures.
The Prime Minister
I understand that a number of local authorities have accumulated substantial balances, in some cases because of the drop in interest rates. I hope that they will maintain and, indeed, improve on the housing programme that has been established.
Mrs. Thatcher
If James Callaghanthe Prime Minister will not reject the proposals for the nationalisation of construction companies contained in the Labour Party programme, will he at least reject the wholesale proposals for nationalisation and State direction of the other 31 sectors of industry contained in that programme?
[column 283]The Prime Minister
My answer remains the same as it was to the hon. Member for Melton (Mr. Latham).
Mrs. Thatcher
If the Prime Minister's answer remains the same, will he tell us what the answer was? Does he repudiate that programme, or does he approve it?
The Prime Minister
I am sorry that the right hon. Lady did not hear what I said. I said that no doubt, in due course, when the manifesto is published, both she and the hon. Member for Melton will read it.
Mrs. Thatcher
Is that programme alive or dead?
The Prime Minister
The right hon. Lady does not get the date of the General Election out of me in that way.
Mr. James Lamond
Is my right hon. Friend aware that if he were to dismiss the Secretary of State for the Environment it would cause a great deal of distress among my constituents including, in particular, the Tory leader of the council, who only last week was delighted to hear the announcement that the Oldham Metropolitan Borough was to receive an additional £1 million annually to assist with its difficulties? Is he aware that Councillor Geoffrey Webb, The Tory leader, described that news as most gratifying?
The Prime Minister
Yes, Sir. I am finding a great deal of satisfaction among Conservative-controlled local authorities at the fact that we have managed to reduce interest rates so that they are much lower than they were when the Conservative Party was last in office. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State is performing his duties with his usual diligence and ability and, I understand, to general satisfaction.
Mr. Percival
If the Secretary of State is to remain in his employment, will the Prime Minister have an early word with him about the damage caused by the recent gales in the North-West, and particularly in Southport? A large number of my constituents have suffered heartbreaking damage to their homes and belongings. Their response to the tragedy has been magnificent, but they are very worried and it would be a great help to them, and to the Sefton Borough Council[column 284]—which has also risen splendidly to the occasion—if the Prime Minister and his right hon. Friend were able to give further consideration to what might be done.
The Prime Minister
I received a telegram this morning from the mayors of Blackpool, Fylde and Wyre asking for Government financial assistance because of the damage that has been suffered on that coast. I have already asked the Secretary of State for the Environment to look into this matter—that is another reason why he should not be dismissed—and he has undertaken to do so. As the hon. and learned Gentleman will know, there is no fund available for this purpose, but there are certain facilities that could be made available. I readily agree that when the three mayors have informed me, as they have told me they will, of the additional assistance that will be required, the Government will be ready to look into the matter.
Mr. Loyden
May I ask my right hon. Friend, instead of dismissing the Secretary of State for the Environment, to consult him about the question of the resources that are made available by Government to local authorities? Is he aware that I believe that these resources require greater scrutiny and that the present situation is quite ridiculous because certain local authorities have a surplus of unused capital for housing, whereas other areas, with great housing, whereas other areas, with great housing stress, are in need of such finance?
The Prime Minister
I shall certainly take up that point with my right hon. Friend. He is at present meeting local authorities on the subject of the rate support grant for next year. I do not know whether local authorities have raised this matter with him at those meetings, but clearly he will want to take all these factors into account when he makes his announcement.
Mr. Clegg
Will the Prime Minister ask the Secretary of State for the Environment to visit the Lancashire coast to see the abject misery from which many of my constituents are now suffering? I do not think my constituents find this a laughing matter when they have spring water flooding through their houses. I am anxious that a Minister should see the situation, because it is still dangerous.
[column 285]The Prime Minister
I shall certainly convey that request to my right hon. Friend, but I believe that the local authorities have acted with great speed on the matter. A number of people have had their homes flooded, and a great deal of damage has been done. The House will sympathise with those who have suffered in this way. I cannot go further now than to say that when we receive further information about the extent of the damage, and the sums of money involved, the Government will give careful consideration to what is proposed.
Mr. Tom King
If the Prime Minister is not willing to sack the Secretary of State for the Environment, has he noticed the Early-Day Motion inviting him to back the Secretary of State for Energy? Is it the Prime Minister's judgment that the Secretary of State for Energy has alone more damage by keeping quiet, as in the case of the miners' productivity bonus——
Mr. Speaker
Order. That is a separate question and should be put on the Order Paper.
CBI
Q3. Mr. Wyn Roberts
asked the Prime Minister when he next plans to meet the CBI.
The Prime Minister
I refer the hon. Member to the reply which I gave to my hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent, South (Mr. Ashley) on 10th November.
Mr. Roberts
No doubt the Prime Minister is studying reports of the proceedings at this week's CBI conference. Does he agree with the general view, expressed yesterday, that the present pay bargaining system is a total failure, in that it has failed to raise living standards in this country and has contributed to inflation, low productivity and high unemployment?
The Prime Minister
I do not know that I am called upon to express a view on the opinions of the Director General, but, whoever expressed such views, it would be unfortunate to dismiss the collective bargaining system that exists until somebody brought forward something that would be both better and acceptable to put in its place.
[column 286]Mr. Roy Hughes
When the Prime Minister next meets the CBI, will he impress upon it the need for all sections of British industry to use British steel in the manufacture of their products, so that thereby we may avoid in future reports such as those currently appearing in the Press that the BSC is again contemplating making 20,000 steelworkers redundant?
The Prime Minister
Yes, Sir. I shall certainly draw that to the attention of all manufacturers and industrialists who are at present using steel. A very difficult situation has grown up in the steel industry throughout the world, and the Government are giving the matter a great deal of urgent attention.
PRIME MINISTER (ENGAGEMENTS)
Q4. Mr. Ridley
asked the Prime Minister if he will list his engagements for Tuesday 15th November 1977.
The Prime Minister
In addition to my duties in this House, I shall be holding meetings with ministerial colleagues and others, including one with the Foreign Minister of Romania.
Mr. Ridley
Will the Prime Minister be able to take time off this afternoon to ponder the fact that the British Steel Corporation has, since it was nationalised, lost its share of the market? Its share of the United Kingdom market has gone down from 76 per cent. to 53 per cent. while the Corporation has taken £3,000 million of our capital and has lost billions on revenue account, too. Will the Prime Minister consider that it might have been possible to restore the cuts in education, to have enough kidney machines and to look after the social services properly if it had not been for the extraordinary failure of nationalisation in this instance?
The Prime Minister
No, Sir. The hon. Gentleman is pursuing his usual vendetta, but it does not bear much relation to the facts. The steel industry throughout the world, as he knows very well, is suffering a very great deal from the recession. Indeed, I read in the Economist last weekend that the Bethlehem Steel Company alone—just one company in the United States—had lost over $400 million [column 287]in the third quarter. This is an international problem and cannot be solved by any party claptrap about nationalisation.
Mr. Kinnock
Is my right hon. Friend aware that many people are aware of the policies of the hon. Member for Cirencester and Tewkesbury (Mr. Ridley) on the nationalised industries, and that had it not been for the commitment of the Labour Government to the steel industry, which we hope will continue and grow more generous and more definite, we should have had a decimated steel industry, which we hope will continue and grow more generous and more definite, we should have had a decimated steel industry that would have been neither able to produce the materials to make kidney machines nor the money for this country to be able to pay for their production, servicing, maintenance and provision?
The Prime Minister
The steel industry is an efficient industry, but there is room for substantially increased productivity. Certainly nationalisation has nothing to do with this matter——
Mr. Ridley
Oh, yes, it has.
The Prime Minister
I cannot remember whether the hon. Member had been dismissed from the Department of Industry before Rolls-Royce was nationalised.
PRINCESS ANNE (BIRTH OF A SON)
Mrs. Thatcher
Would it be in order to ask James Callaghanthe Prime Minister to find time today not only to express the congratulations of the Government to Princess Anne [column 288]on the birth of her child but to express the congratulations of the House?
The Prime Minister
I shall be very happy indeed to do so, because I am sure that that would be the general wish and view of the House. Whether a child be a commoner or a Royal child, the birth of a child to a family is always something which everybody is delighted to welcome. I have already conveyed a formal message to Princess Anne on behalf of the Government, and I have myself written to Her Majesty the Queen. I shall be very happy indeed to reinforce that.
Mr. Speaker
I should inform the House that as Speaker I sent a telegram of congratulations to the Royal Family.